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Pelvic Organ Prolapse, Support Thread

On Health & Drugs & Medications » Pregnancy & Birth

233,560 words with 238 Comments; publish: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:21:00 GMT; (900203.13, « »)

Some of us mamas who are dealing w/ Pelvic Organ Prolapse thought it might be helpful to start a POP support thread. This appears to be one of those things that many women experience, but few talk about. The medical community views surgery as the best treatment, but we are a group of women trying our darnest to keep our bodies whole & find more natural methods of managing the prolapse.

In a nutshell, POP is when is when the uterus, bladder, rectum, or small bowel fall into the vagina. Some of the symptoms may be stress urinary incontinece, a full feeling in the pelvic region, bulging and discomfort in the vagina. It can be caused by difficult labor & deliveries, but not always. Some women experience prolapse at menopause, some even before having children. Prolapse is not dangerous nor usually a medical emergency, but more of a quality of life issue. For further information, I encourage you to visit www.wholewoman.com . It is an invaluable resourse and the author, Christine Kent, is leading the way in alternatives to surgery for POP.

I'll start by introducing myself, and hope that others follow.

I was recently dx w/uterine & bladder prolapse (cystocele). My symptoms are stress urinary incontinence, varicose vein pain, PSD pain (both of these I had in pregnancy & the prolapse aggravates them), and backache. My GYN immediately began speaking of hysterectomy and a bladder sling. I was completely floored by the dx. and the tx. recommendations. I felt that my body was failing me. After much research I found Whole Woman and began the path of treating my prolapse naturally. Currently, my personal tx. plan includes chiropractic care, the exercises and posture from Whole Woman, Sea Sponges as a pessary (they may hold the uterus in place), RRL Tea, nettle supplements for the VV, Vit. C and extra Calcium/Magnesium to aid in healing, and a decrease in heavy lifting.

I am still learning about POP, and look forward to talking w/others. I hope this can be a safe, supportive place where we can gather to discuss, vent, and share ideas about life w/POP.

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  • 238 Comments
    • Subbing!

      I'm only 6 weeks pp right now...a long pushing phase, shoulder dystocia, and a 4th degree tear all contributed to "pushing around" my pelvic organs and stressing the muscles in that area as well. I'll be meeting with my OB this week to see what has resolved on it's own and what might need some help to resolve. I can say right now that voiding completely is still difficult (I void, then a moment later can void again) and when voiding I have a feeling of pressure...like the sensation of a tampon that is too low, perhaps?

      #1; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 02:57:00 GMT
    • cystocele mama

      hi all - i wanted this to end up on the support thread! sorry to duplicate.

      i had a grade 3 cycstocele at 4 wks postpartum.

      my labor was long (26 hrs) and pushing phase 1 hour+ baby came out compound, meaning his hand was over his head.

      I had a 2nd degree tear and at 3 wks pp discovered that something was bulging when i was in the shower.

      I have been doing vaginal biofeedback/ pelvic floor PT and am greatly encouraged. Now at 8 wks pp, my cystocele is a grade 2. I have actually noticed that on certain days i feel almost normal.

      yet if i have been straining (eg. picking up the kids or lifting) then i feel like my bottom is saggy.

      I think listening to your body is very important. Also try not to strain or lift, which is always a challenge with litttle ones. Keeping stool soft is important to avoid straining with BMs. My friend who is a nutritionist recommends All Bran Bran Buds every day and encourages lots of water for this issue.

      my best to all who are dealing with this

      #2; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 02:58:00 GMT
    • Just got back from a visit to my chiropractor. She did a uterine massage & we both clearly felt the bladder move back into place. I felt really great afterward. The key will be to see if it stays that way. :fingersx:
      #3; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 02:59:00 GMT
    • Sooo...

      I saw my OB the other day and she said she thought the bladder prolapse was "pretty minor at this point" and she would re-eval at 6 months pp to see if I needed PT.

      But, well, minor or not it's bugging me! Though I'm thrilled that it has already improved a bit and that the rectal tissue is healing fine too. Anyway, I know there are some exercises in the Whole Woman book (I ordered it through interlibrary loan, but it's going to take a while)...

      I do have the Mummy Tummy book (from a few years ago) and someone here mentioned the exercises are similar? If I do the Mummy Tummy exercises and some belly dance do you think it would help reduce the prolapse the way the whole woman exercises would? Or can someone give me a better idea about what the whole woman exercises are?

      Thanks!

      #4; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:00:00 GMT
    • When recently reading the Mummy Tummy book, I thought the author was working on some of the same premises as Christine, although the exercises are different for the most part. I can't say whether they could help heal the prolapse, but I do not think they could hurt it. I have actually wanted to post that same question on Whole Woman, but haven't gotten there yet.

      Good news from your OB!!! I am glad to hear you are healing well. When you say it still bothers you, how exactly are you feeling it?

      #5; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:01:00 GMT
    • :)

      Well, I was initially told I had a level II bladder prolapse which my OB felt would resolve on it's own. At 6 weeks pp she said she'd call it a "just barely level II...more droopy than fallen really" bladder prolapse.

      In terms of symptoms, they aren't horrible...just annoying. A constant sensation of something "in" the vaginal area, similar to wearing a tampon that isn't inserted properly/all the way. There is also a sensation of friction in the vaginal area when I walk or sit. I have a specific "ache"/pain when voiding that feels better (but doesn't go away) when I press on the front of my pelvic area. And when I void I need to void once, then adjust my position and void again in order to fully empty the bladder.

      At this appointment she did check for UTI (nothing) since some of the symptoms are similar. I'm staying really well hydrated and drinking plenty of cran juice as well as taking acidopholus suppl to help prevent UTI.

      Her current advice is belly dance, pelvic rocks, walking, kegels, sitz baths with comfrey or epsom salts, high fiber diet, extra vit c, and kegels. Especially since some of the pain could be due to still healing tissue (it's only been 6 weeks and she said the sutures wouldn't be fully gone for another 2-3 months due to the size used on the muscles) and plain old vaginal birth tissue trauma/muscle strain. She'll check in 3 months if my symptoms don't change at all but my next appointment is for 6 months...

      One concern I have is that she said the prolapse is getting better but my symptoms have been getting progressively worse?

      #6; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:02:00 GMT
    • :bow

      Thank you ~*max*~!!!!!!!! I can't believe I haven't seen this thread before. I posted a thread on the Birth Professional board asking about Postpartum healing. They suggested a book, Natural Health after Birth: The Complete Guide to Postpartum Wellness by Aviva Jill Jill Romm. I was surprised to see Peggy's O'Mara's name along with what she said about the book on the front cover. Must be a good book. I feel a bit betrayed that my MW's never told me that POP is quite possible. Every woman before, during and after childbirth should be well educated about POP. Prevention is key! This needs to be a STICKY. MODS, can we get a Sticky?

      :)At this appointment she did check for UTI (nothing) since some of the symptoms are similar. I'm staying really well hydrated and drinking plenty of cran juice as well as taking acidopholus suppl to help prevent UTI.

      One concern I have is that she said the prolapse is getting better but my symptoms have been getting progressively worse?

      I think I have a hunch on why you feel your symptoms getting worse while your prolapse is improving.

      Is the Cran Juice sweetened? Anytime I go over board on sweets I have a UTI. When I was 19 I thought I had a UTI all the time but the test showed that I didn't have it. I drank the Cran Juice ALL the time. Sweeten, because thats all they come in unless you get the pill or eat the tarty fruit raw or buy unsweetened juice.

      Bacteria thrives on sweets. When your not able to completely empty the bladder then the little urine thats left becomes a breeding ground for bacteria.

      In my case, I developed Interstitial Cystitis. Ulcers in the bladder and urethral wall. It'll give you the sensation that you have to pee all the time and its chronic. This is not fun to deal with. Especially since I have a grade 4 cystocele! AHHH!!! Its AGGRAVATING!!!!!! sorry, I had to vent a little. It can be manage so whoever gets it, its not the end of the world. The KEY is to drink LOTS and LOTS of water. Don't drown your self tho. This is the best way to flush the bacteria out of your bladder. Something else thats really important, go often, empty the bladder as best you can ever hour or two. IF you wait too long you will over extend the bladder and cause stretch marks so to speak. Those stretch marks in the bladder interfere with the natural protective lining that coats the bladder and urethral wall. This lining is essential. If I eat spicy foods or highly acidic foods I'll have an IC flare up because that lining is missing where the stretch marks are. Those stretch marks are the ulcers.

      My cystocele feels like I have a water balloon in my vagina. I'll go to a PT next Monday for the first time. She said the worse case scenario that she's dealt with was an elderly woman in her 80s. Her entire uterus was hanging outside her body. The PT got it back in its place and it stayed there. This 80yo was terrified of surgery. I gather surgery would've caused other problems so its good she was able to avoid that.

      I want to share with you more about what I've been doing but I'll wait to do that in a different post. Be prepared, I've done something no one has ever done before. Its a little controversial but you smart ladies can handle it.

      Thank you ~*max*~

      #7; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:03:00 GMT
    • Thanks fruitful...I'm mostly drinking "homemade" cran juice but I've been cutting it with apple juice so, ummmm, yeah. Sweetened it is. I'll see if I can find the pills, or maybe sweeten it with stevia or a non-sugar sweetener.

      The UTI test was Thursday, so I was "clean" 3 days ago...I'll keep my fingers crossed that I stay that way.

      #8; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:04:00 GMT
    • So glad to find this thread... I'm a year postpartum with ds2 and am finally trying to do something about my prolapse, or whatever it is... but most importantly trying to get over the feeling that my whole body is falling apart on me and feeling overwhelmed with what's necessary to get back on track. I have abdominal separation as well, but have read that I shouldn't do much to work on that until I have my pelvic floor back in condition due to the pressure abdominal work can put on internal organs. I don't have anything to contribute, really, but am so glad to find others who know what I'm talking about. I told my mom it felt like I was 'birthing an orange... perpetually' and she acted like I was from Mars...

      to get involved with Physical Therapy do you start with an OB? I only have a midwife here. What type of doctor treats this condition?

      #9; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:05:00 GMT
    • So glad to find this thread... I'm a year postpartum with ds2 and am finally trying to do something about my prolapse, or whatever it is... but most importantly trying to get over the feeling that my whole body is falling apart on me and feeling overwhelmed with what's necessary to get back on track. I have abdominal separation as well, but have read that I shouldn't do much to work on that until I have my pelvic floor back in condition due to the pressure abdominal work can put on internal organs. I don't have anything to contribute, really, but am so glad to find others who know what I'm talking about. I told my mom it felt like I was 'birthing an orange... perpetually' and she acted like I was from Mars...

      to get involved with Physical Therapy do you start with an OB? I only have a midwife here. What type of doctor treats this condition?

      A friend of mine also has abdominal separation and she went to an Osteopath who did acupuncture on her. She said she could feel tingling in the mussels and it really helped her. Its not so separated now. You can skip the Osteopath and go straight to an acupuncturist for treatment.

      The PT I'm going to go to said she needs a referral, either from an OB or a chiropractor. I'm going to try to get one from a chiropractor since I went to a Midwife with my last three births.

      I'm Happy you found us!

      #10; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:06:00 GMT
    • Fruitful Womb, I can't wait to hear your controversial treatment......

      Don't keep us hangin' woman!!!

      #11; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:07:00 GMT
    • Joining in :shy I had both a cystocele and a rectocele after my son's birth in April 06. He was born very quickly (very fast labor and he pretty much just flew out :lol ) with me in an standing upright and his head apparently caught both as he descended, so here I am with this issue 15 months later. I've been using the ideas from Whole Woman and I have to say I'm pretty pleased with it. I went from having it bother me alot and causing chronic backache to feeling like it barely bothers me.

      I've completely overhauled my diet and exercise routine and I feel great overall, and really notice the difference in my prolapse. I do see a chiro regularly and I've done some of the T-Tapps exercises which are supposed to be helpful. I think making sure I'm in the "posture" all of the time, especially while exercising, is really what has helped the most. I would like to have another baby next year so it is important to me to heal this as much as possible. I am a little worried that it won't be "healed" enough for a HB midwife to take me as patient though. Anyone know anything about that?

      #12; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:08:00 GMT
    • Fruitful Womb, I can't wait to hear your controversial treatment......

      Don't keep us hangin' woman!!!

      How do I begin.

      When your pregnant your uterus seem to go back into place right? A lot of remission happens when your pregnant. I get a break from my IC only when I'm pregnant. It must be the hormones. On that note, I tried something not many would do. I prepared my saved placenta and took six big gulps of it. And let me tell you, THAT WAS THE WEIRDEST MOMENT OF MY LIFE!!!!!!!!!!! I was in an altered state of energy for days! My dh even noticed. I did this because, well, for one thing I was desperate, and thought wth what can it hurt, it just might help. I think it did. The hormones that supported the uterus were once again back in my body. Would I do it again? Probably not the way I prepared it the last time. That was pretty hard for me. It reminded me of the Fear Factor show. I'm not so sure if this effect will last because I starting to feel my cystocele again. Its really discouraging. I'm not kidding when I say its like a water balloon in my vagina. But for two days after I drank my placenta (some of it) I felt normal. Everything was tight and in place. The next time I'll hire a Chinese Dr. who will prepare the placenta for me. They'll dehydrate it and put it in capsules. I hear it can be useful for menopause. My main intention will be to speed PP recovery.

      About the MW, for the pp concern... I asked that same question. I'm thinking about UC next time because during the last 3 deliveries the same MW freaked out at the very end. If you do a MW go to someone who will support a delivery while you don't push. I think its called fire-breathing. Is that what they're talking about when they say breath the baby out? Women in comas can give birth vaginally. Your uterus is going to push the baby out with or with out you. In our case of POP its better to let our bodies do it on its own. Its a good idea to breath the baby out to avoid POP in the first place. Does anyone else feel betrayed that our MW's never told us POP was possible? I wish I knew better.

      #13; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:09:00 GMT
    • I definitely have a rectocele. I diagnosed myself, but there is no doubt about it. I also suspected the beginnings of a cystocele, but that seems to be correcting itself as time goes by.

      I hate having the rectocele. It's so embarassing! I feel like the only one in the world who has a hard time just going to the bathroom. It developed during my last pregnancy, which was my 6th baby in a bit less than 9 years, so I guess it's not a huge surprise that my body started to give a little bit.

      I'm 12 months PP right now and I really hope to be able to wait another 3 or 4 years before getting pregnant again. With my last babe, I didn't push much at all. My body pushed him out very efficiently. He was quite big (10 lbs, 1oz), so I'm sure that didn't help.

      I've been doing acupuncture for lots of different things and the person doing it knows about the prolapse, but she's not sure it will help. I've spoken with my sister about it (she's a doctor), and she told me the only thing to do is surgery. That's not going to happen unless it gets reeeaalllllyyyyy bad. My aunt had that surgery recently and she couldn't get out of bed for six weeks! No thank you.

      #14; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:10:00 GMT
    • Fruitful Womb, very cool about the placenta. I wish I had saved mine & gone the chinese herbalist route. (I don't think I could stomache it any other way, but yay for you for doing it!) Since this is my last babe, I am placenta-less.

      Welcome Debsdancer, Celestialdreamer & Barefoot Mama. Glad to have you w/us.

      Querico, how's it going w/you?

      Wombatclay, I hope the UTI stays clear for you! Those are the worst.

      Speaking of which, I am scheduled for urodynamic testing w/my urologist next week. Has anyone done this? I am soooooo not looking forward to it, but feel I should have a complete diagnostic picture as I proceed to treat this on my own. My worst symptom is stress urinary incontinence. It is constant & really sucks. That is the part that gets me down the most. I feel like an old lady. And, w/all the things I have implemented to treat this, it seems to be getting worse. :shrug

      #15; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:11:00 GMT
    • My worst symptom is stress urinary incontinence. It is constant & really sucks. That is the part that gets me down the most. I feel like an old lady. And, w/all the things I have implemented to treat this, it seems to be getting worse.

      I was reading the other day that cystocele can actually reduce stress incontinence since the bladder can push in such a way as to block leakage. As the bladder moves back into place the pressure shifts and the leakage gets worse. I hope it's temporary...

      #16; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:12:00 GMT
    • I've had my prolapse since '04 and been dealing with it pretty good. I've developed chronic daily headaches which makes the prolapse not the worst thing out there!!!:lol One thing for sure, that has helped me out is talking and listening to other women who have it too, and that surgery isn't the only option.

      When I first discovered prolapse, it bothered me like crazy. I would always go to the whole woman forum for a little support. It would always help me.

      #17; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:13:00 GMT
    • I had pelvic floor reconstruction in March; laparascopic cystocele and uterine prolapse surgery, and then my perineum was re-opened and incomplete repair work re-done to correct the rectocele. I have lingering stress incontinence issues (new post-surgery; I did not have an elevated risk of it pre-surgery, but got nailed by the normal risk). I may go back under the knife for this in a couple of months.
      #18; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:14:00 GMT
    • I was reading the other day that cystocele can actually reduce stress incontinence since the bladder can push in such a way as to block leakage. As the bladder moves back into place the pressure shifts and the leakage gets worse. I hope it's temporary...

      Thank you for sharing that! Maybe it is moving into place. I have been doing Mayan Uterine Massage, which feels like it is helping, but I couldn't understand why I would be having more incontinence. Do you recall where you were reading that? i'd really like to learn more.

      #19; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:15:00 GMT
    • I had pelvic floor reconstruction in March; laparascopic cystocele and uterine prolapse surgery, and then my perineum was re-opened and incomplete repair work re-done to correct the rectocele. I have lingering stress incontinence issues (new post-surgery; I did not have an elevated risk of it pre-surgery, but got nailed by the normal risk). I may go back under the knife for this in a couple of months.

      Thank you for sharing this pigpokey. How has it been for you since the surgery? How are you feeling? Do you see any improvements? Every now & then when I get overwhelmed I think maybe I should have the surgery, but I really am hoping to avoid it. It would be helpful to hear from someone who has been down this route.

      #20; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:16:00 GMT
    • Do you recall where you were reading that? i'd really like to learn more.

      I'll see if I can find it again! I think it was a UK website...hmmmm...that narrows it down. :lol

      ETA- this isn't the article I was reading, but similar findings (though they're looking at SUI following surgery for POP):

      Associated pelvic organ prolapse in women with stress urinary incontinence: when to operate? Department of Urology, University of Michigan

      RECENT FINDINGS: POP can functionally mask SUI. Surgery for POP may unmask occult SUI in many women. Clinically continent women undergoing POP surgery are at risk for developing symptomatic SUI postoperatively.

      And, from the Canadian Family Physician Association Correcting cystocele can unmask stress incontinence (unkinking the urethra makes it easier to leak).

      #21; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:17:00 GMT
    • Thank you wombatclay. I appreciate you pulling that up. Another reason to avoid surgery! My mother had a hysterectomy due to uterine prolapse and she has had trouble w/incontinence ever since. Although being very pro-medical intervention, she just believes the SUC is from old age. She's been telling me "how much better" she felt after the surgery, etc., etc., etc. A lot of people in my world just do not get where I am coming from...... sigh.......
      #22; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:18:00 GMT
    • mother had a hysterectomy due to uterine prolapse

      Mine too...but since she wants more grandkids she is pushing schedulded c/s births in the future, even though the research shows that doesn't help.

      #23; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:19:00 GMT
    • i have a cystocele and rectocele but have never had issues w it. i have always been told that its pretty normal after preg...and a large majoritry of women i have seen have at least one.

      i know docs like to recommend surgery or hysterectomy for this, which makes me sick.

      i blame our sedentary lifestyles as the #1 reason why this happens. forced pusahing comes a close 2nd. thoughts?

      sorry,nak

      well, i've never been sedentary and wasn't forced to push... i have a feeling mine had more to do with too much activity.

      #24; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:00:00 GMT
    • by sedentary, i mean not squatting or do other things regularly that would improve our pelvic floor health. i don't know too many modern women that do the type of squatting that is done in other cultures - or even the type of cleaning/activities that were done 100 years ago.

      then again, i don't think that nearly all cystoceles and rectoceles are damaging or harmful. it just happens with pregnancy. some women have issues with bladder control, but it isn't always about a cystocele.

      then again, this could totally be a normal process of being pregnant. we don't know for sure, but i honestly believe that our lack of physical activity has alot to do with it. (as does episiotomy, forced pushing on the tailbone, etc)

      I guess I'm always cautious of anything other than kegels and PT - because so many docs are eager to take our uteruses out or "sling our bladders". PT works much nicer without the surgical trauma.

      #25; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:01:00 GMT
    • Well, not to disagree totally or derail a support thread, but as a semi-professional belly dancer I've got pretty good pelvic floor awareness/strength/flexibility/control. And I rarely use chairs outside of work (one of the oddest things about my recovery has been sitting in our comfy armchair every single day for at least a while :lol). Usually I tailor sit but squatting is something I never stopped doing as a kid (my family worked with Vietnamese refugees for years and everyone else was squatting so it didn't occur to me to do differently!) I did have SD and a 4th degree tear, however there were no birth interventions (other than a jacuzzi tub :lol) until dd was impacted for quite some time. I don't hold modern birth technique blameless, but I don't put all the blame on that either.

      I agree that physical activites and postures have changed and birth is changing with it (I'm a spinning babies fan) and that these prolapse conditions aren't a new thing by any stretch of the imagination. BUT I don't agree that it's just something a mama should accept or be happy about or see as "normal". Just because something may be natural it doesn't always follow that it is normal, or healthy, or appropriate, or to be ignored.

      I'm glad that some prolapse mamas don't have any quality of life issues associated with prolapse (it's not always linked to childbirth of course) but I don't think that mamas who are concerned about their prolapses are out of line!

      :)

      #26; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:02:00 GMT
    • I agree with you, wombatclay. I never meant to imply that women should be "happy" about it, but that it is very, very normal.

      For women who have urinary issues and rectal issues, PT is the best course of action. I just have an issue with the current "treatment" by OB/GYNs of hysterectomy.

      #27; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:03:00 GMT
    • Oh, I agree... the whole woman site is a wonderful resource for non-slice n dice prolapse care. There's a wonderful attitude there about self care!
      #28; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:04:00 GMT
    • I agree with you, wombatclay. I never meant to imply that women should be "happy" about it, but that it is very, very normal.

      For women who have urinary issues and rectal issues, PT is the best course of action. I just have an issue with the current "treatment" by OB/GYNs of hysterectomy.

      :wave Hi Pam, but are we really shocked that that's there answer?

      BTW I Heart :Bow Pam in all her awesome midwiferynessesss :notes2: :eyes

      #29; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:05:00 GMT
    • Yup...gots'ta love the Pam. :)

      On the whole woman site, I really like the "two doors" story. And it's important for people to think of surgery as just one option, and not really the best option for most. Like the story says, the surgery is always there. Why not try other things first? If those don't work then you can consider other options. But if you start with surgery...well. In some cases you'll be fine, but in many you'll just make a bad situation worse and be setting yourself up for more and more surgical intervention as time goes by.

      Bleh...off to play with my babe...I'm depressing myself here! :lol

      #30; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:06:00 GMT
    • You can all call me Henny Penny now. The sky (or my rectum, for that matter) is NOT falling as I had thought. I just got back from the doctor, who determined I just have hemmorhoids. :o So as much as I have appreciated the discussion here, I guess I should look for advice on my problem, and leave you lovely ladies to continue supporting each other. Be well!
      #31; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:07:00 GMT
    • yay ecoteat! Congrats! (and boy does it feel funny to say congrats! you've got piles!) :lol
      #32; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:08:00 GMT
    • My oh my have this thread grown! This is so wonderful! Sorry its been a while since my last visit. I really need a "pick-me-up". I've been feeling better in some ways and annoyed at this WATER BALLOON feeling in my vagina! Tho, I'm optimistic. I consider myself lucky to feel so optimistic because its not of my nature to do so. I feel strongly that being positive will promote healing. And I can prove it!

      When I gave birth to my 10ber I saw my entire vagina budging out of my body.

      This really freaked me out, ok! But My wonderful Midwife at the time (a partner to the MW that helped deliver 3 of my previous HB children) told me "Don't worry about that, its normal, just do your kegals and you'll be fine!" That was that! I did my kegals and I healed.

      4 m ago I had the same thing happen except I didn't care to notice until after my UTI. Bad UTI Bad! With every urge to expel urine came down my cervix. that stinging part during a UTI compelled my body to go into a pushing stage, similar to the pushing stage during labor. I think I was 3ks pp? This is when my MW told me about the time she pushed my cervix back into my body after delivering Liam. She thought it was a blood clot. I understand now why she inserted her hand into me after the apprentice asked, "uh whats that?" MW pushed down HARD on my belly after she put my cervix back into me. Then strongly advised me to NOT EVEN VACUUM! My house is terribly neglected. If I do anything my insides will fall out. This mess is a hazard too! I have to do something! So tomorrow I've got a friend that will come over to watch Liam and the others while I allow myself to work for 2 hrs. Thats it! 2rs to give this place some attention. I want this place back in order! Did giving birth disable me!? Since I'm feeling better I'll work back into a routine, slowly.

      Oh, my point is, this MW is negative. Healing sucks. Positive MW= greater healing.

      Love and peace to you all!

      ~FW

      Coming out of the woodwork to thank everyone for this thread. I noticed my prolapse a few days after my 4th baby was born, 5 weeks ago. She was my biggest, 10lbs5oz, and I wonder if that contributed to the problem. I think I probably had a very mild cystocele before her but now I feel like I'm walking around with a baseball up there all the time. I'm fairly certain I have a cystocele and a rectocele. I haven't seen anyone about it yet because surgery isn't an option for me now, even if I did decide I wanted it.

      I've rested as much as possible since she was born. We pretty much hung out in bed and relaxed for the first 3 weeks. And I'm still taking it easy. But it doesn't seem to be getting better and I'm so angry. I know I probably shouldn't be but I am. I hate the way this feels. I hate that I can't do things that I want to do because I'm worried I'll make it worse. I hate that it bothers me so much. I hate that I have to ask for help to do things that I didn't even think twice about before, like lifting laundry baskets. I feel hopeless and depressed a lot and I don't really have anyone irl to talk to about this that understands. But I do feel better knowing I'm not alone, so thank you for this thread. The Whole Woman site is giving me some hope that maybe some day I won't think about my vagina all day long.

      :Hug Hang in there mama, I want to talk to you so I'm going to have my say tomorrow evening b/c right now I'm sssoooo tired. I'm so glad your here. :hug Congratulations on your new baby! :balloons

      hugs ecoteat...I'm so sorry. It sounds like you weren't pushing "too soon". You were listening to and going with your body. You didn't do this to yourself, you didn't mess up, you didn't do it wrong. It stinks, and it's not fair, and it's normal to mourn... but this really is just something that happens and sometimes it just isn't anyone's "fault". Like stretch marks. Sometimes you do everything "right" and it doesn't matter.

      hang in there mama...

      I've got a point to make of this too. Basically whenever I felt this after giving birth to the three last babies, (not so much with my dd) it was PAINFUL! Not anymore tho.

      :Peace

      #33; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:09:00 GMT
    • You can all call me Henny Penny now. The sky (or my rectum, for that matter) is NOT falling as I had thought. I just got back from the doctor, who determined I just have hemmorhoids. :o So as much as I have appreciated the discussion here, I guess I should look for advice on my problem, and leave you lovely ladies to continue supporting each other. Be well!

      Great news Amy! Definately the lesser of two evils!

      #34; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:10:00 GMT
    • I have a question, I am almost 4 weeks PP my cervix is hanging down into my vaginal canal. My MW says it is not prolapse because it's not hanging out of my vagina, obviously it is prolapse to some extent. We went to the beach last Sun to Tues so I didn't do much of anything. This seems to have made things worse. When I get up in the morning I can't even find my cervix, within 1/2 hour it is hanging down agian. I am doing my kegels religiously. Any thoughts?
      #35; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:11:00 GMT
    • Hey there mamas!

      I haven't posted in awhile. I'm now pregnant with baby #3 and I'm a little worried what my future MW is going to say about my cystocele/rectocele. It doesn't really bother me that much, but they are both a stage 2. They happened during ds's very rapid birth, along with a 3rd degree tear. The tear was sutured by my old MW but the outer layer popped open at a week pp. The MW told me to just rest as much as possible and not worry about it. It never did heal back together, but it is just the outer layer. I think this may also have something to do with my prolapse issues.

      Anyway, I'm really excited to be pregnant again! I am interviewing a HB MW in a few weeks that I've heard is pretty laid back. I'm concerned that she won't take me as a patient because of the existing prolapse, even though I truly believe that everything can and will be fine. Has anyone had prolapse (and bad tears) with one baby and gone on to have a trouble free birth the next time?

      #36; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:12:00 GMT
    • Hey there mamas!

      I haven't posted in awhile. I'm now pregnant with baby #3 and I'm a little worried what my future MW is going to say about my cystocele/rectocele. It doesn't really bother me that much, but they are both a stage 2. They happened during ds's very rapid birth, along with a 3rd degree tear. The tear was sutured by my old MW but the outer layer popped open at a week pp. The MW told me to just rest as much as possible and not worry about it. It never did heal back together, but it is just the outer layer. I think this may also have something to do with my prolapse issues.

      Anyway, I'm really excited to be pregnant again! I am interviewing a HB MW in a few weeks that I've heard is pretty laid back. I'm concerned that she won't take me as a patient because of the existing prolapse, even though I truly believe that everything can and will be fine. Has anyone had prolapse (and bad tears) with one baby and gone on to have a trouble free birth the next time?

      there are several women over at whole women who have some pretty significant prolapses who have gone on to have wonderful, uncomplicated pregnancies and births.

      if we are to have another child, i will plan a homebirth again (we had a homebirth transfer turn into a horrifically traumatic hospital birth with forceps and episiotomy and purple pushing for 5 hours...is it no wonder that my bladder fell down?)

      i actually feel most kinship with the uc mamas here now, and that is what i envision as the birth of my dreams. however, i will most likely seek out the services of a homebirth midwife that is experienced in working with mamas who have had traumatic first births and with extensive tearing, etc.

      i also figured that even despite the cystocele, i feel SOOOOO fortunate to not have had a surgical birth. i think the decision to hbac is more challenging than the decision to hb post prolapse, and so many women go on to have successful hbacs.

      just remember...don't push in the lithotomy position. hands and knees would probably keep your pelvic organs aligned properly so that you won't have a problem. don't do any forced/directed pushing, let your body do the work (that's what the fetal ejection reflex is for!), or some mamas breathe their babies down.

      wishing you a wonderful, vibrant pregnancy and the birth of your dreams!

      #37; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:13:00 GMT
    • So one question I have is: if "breathing the baby out" is supposed to be good, then why is a rapid birth (during which I was breathing as much as I could, until my body "grunted" the baby out) supposed to be harder on the pelvic organs? Anyone know WHY precipitous deliveries cause trouble?
      #38; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:14:00 GMT
    • I have a question, I am almost 4 weeks PP my cervix is hanging down into my vaginal canal. My MW says it is not prolapse because it's not hanging out of my vagina, obviously it is prolapse to some extent. We went to the beach last Sun to Tues so I didn't do much of anything. This seems to have made things worse. When I get up in the morning I can't even find my cervix, within 1/2 hour it is hanging down agian. I am doing my kegels religiously. Any thoughts?

      Congratulations on your birth! 4wks is still SO EARLY! Right now you have the advantage to get the most out of your postpartum period.

      In England they won't do a prolapse evaluation until ONE YEAR postpartum! Because the consider the vagina to be in trauma until that time. NO SH!T!

      In Chinese Medicine postpartum is a period of TWO YEARS!

      I recommend you read "Natural Health after Birth: The Complete Guide to Postpartum Wellness" (http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Health-after-Birth-Postpartum/dp/0892819308/ref=pd_ys_iyr_img/102-7465895-8038539?%5Fencoding=UTF8&coliid=I36KBK3QQW78ER&colid=23F1VWKBSHUC0&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=right-2&pf_rd_r=1VS6CR6XRXKGBJXKEQPR&pf_rd_t=1501&pf_rd_p=258341101&pf_rd_i=home)

      If it makes you feel any better I felt this too at 4wks pp. My cervix hasn't fallen in a long time. I'm 4 m pp now. My main problem is the water balloon feeling in my vagina. I have rectal issues too. Other than that, stay as optimistic as you can. And as much as you might hate to, get back in bed! IT seems that people like us who suffer P.O.P. are usually very active.

      There is a lot of truth in the saying, 42 days for 42 years! Rest in bed staying it there for 42 days will invest for you 42 yrs of pelvic health.

      Take homeopathic Sepia. That worked wonders for me.

      ~FW

      #39; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:15:00 GMT
    • And as much as you might hate to, get back in bed! IT seems that people like us who suffer P.O.P. are usually very active.

      ~FW

      That;s the thing, doing nothing seems to make things worse, once i get out the door and working (horse trainer so physical work) my cervix starts to move back up (a little). From all I have read this is opposite of what should be happening...?

      I have been taking sepia, thank you! How often did you take it?

      #40; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:16:00 GMT
    • That;s the thing, doing nothing seems to make things worse, once i get out the door and working (horse trainer so physical work) my cervix starts to move back up (a little). From all I have read this is opposite of what should be happening...?

      just a brainstorm here, but in looking at te whole woman site, horseback riding is the ONLY activity i've ever done that encouraged the posture she recommends (tailbone tilted slightly up). i would think even when you weren't riding, you might tend to stand that way?

      more recently, i've done yoga and bellydancing... and in both was always constantly told to point the tailbone DOWN and straighten the spine as much as possible, so i thought that was GOOD posture! :irked:

      wombatclay, what has your experience been with bellydancing? i've been afraid to go back, but i would love to.

      #41; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:17:00 GMT
    • wombatclay, what has your experience been with bellydancing? i've been afraid to go back, but i would love to.

      I've been doing really gentle/easy moves... I'm only 2.5months out from my 4th degree tear and things are still pretty sore/painful/uncomfortable in the pelvic region even without the prolapse issue. So no shimmies (too sore for hips, too breastfeeding busty for shoulders), no hip drops, no really active sequences. But hip/chest circles and crescents, hip circles, belly rolls, etc have been okay. And they seem to help.

      It's nice since I know I'm increasing blood flow and getting gentle stretching which should spead healing of the tear which will help with the prolapse as well. And the posture/dance moves are good for prolapse support as well.

      Oh...does anyone have the book "Bounce Back after the baby"? It's a LLL approved exercise book with a whole chapter on prolapse/incontenance and exercises/techniques for non-surgical support for these conditions. Even pictures for "correct toilet postures" and stuff like that. And another section on diastasis repair. I'd totally forgotten about it but rediscovered the book last week. Anyone else seen it?

      #42; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:18:00 GMT
    • So one question I have is: if "breathing the baby out" is supposed to be good, then why is a rapid birth (during which I was breathing as much as I could, until my body "grunted" the baby out) supposed to be harder on the pelvic organs? Anyone know WHY precipitous deliveries cause trouble?

      From what I remember it's may not give enough time for the tissues to stretch enough or slowly enough. They also tend to be very intense and contractions closer together, so possibly more stressful to baby and less rest time to recovery between contractions. However, I remember reading or talking to a person who said that where they were from in Africa most the women had what we consider precipitous birth. That was the norm for them.

      #43; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:19:00 GMT
    • Happy2bamama, thanks for explaining! There goes my Winsor Pilates. So is there any form of abdominal exercise that IS okay for women with prolapse? The Whole Woman site seems to only tell you what you can't do. Or am I missing something?

      I really believe that doing Pilates for ab work is okay for a woman with prolapse, but you have to be dilligent about the form. Tonight at my session, we did some middle ab work and it's not like I blasted through 100 crunches or anything! I did about 30 crunch-type exercises, but made sure that my spine was in nuetral position, when I inhaled I made sure I expanded my ribs up and out rather than breathing my stomach out and before I even lifted my chest off the floor, I pulled my lower abs in and up which completely engaged my pelvic floor and then did like 30, really slow and with breaks and in the middle of the crunch, when I felt the burn the most, I scooped those lower abs in even more so there wasn't pressure pushing my abs (and organs) out and down, just me pulling in and up.

      When I'm doing Pilates, any time I feel like I want to bear down or lose form, all I have to do is to engage those pelvic floor muscles by giving my lower abs a scoop in and up. There is so much going on in my head about breathing and my spine and keeping my ribcage pulled in and scooping the lower abs and engaging the pelvic floor that sometimes I don't even know where I am!! I have to stop, start the exercise over and focus. But, I really feel a lot stronger after doing Pilates for about three weeks, twice per week. We do some ab work, but the bulk of our work is on the reformer and working the muscle groups that surround the pelvic floor - glutes, hamstrings, quads, even calves, etc. The key is always engaging the pelvic floor and with every exercise, I am strengthening the muscles that hold my good ole uterus.

      Sorry for the extensive explanation, but I feel like I hear people saying, "Pilates is no good for a prolapse," when really, done right, I think it's amazingly beneficial. And, I don't think you necessarily need someone who has worked with prolapse before to be your trainer. If they know their stuff about the body, you should just be able to explain your prolapse situation and tell them you want to focus on your pelvic floor and go slow.

      Also, I have a grade 1 uterine prolapse, so I'm not sure how this would all feel if you have a more intense prolapse. I still think that it could really help if you go really slow and listen to your body.

      HTH! :wink

      #44; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:46:00 GMT
    • The Tupler books - lose your mummy tummy and maternal fitness have good ab exercises for those with prolapse or diastasis. She also has a dvd but I have not tried it.

      I encourage everyone who has pelvic floor issues to try and find a physical therapist that specializes in pelvic floor rehabilitation. It turns out that I was not doing kegels correctly/effectively - it seems like a no-brainer but apparently not for me (and maybe that is one reason I was prone to prolapse in the first place.) Mine helped me so much and was worth every penny.

      #45; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:47:00 GMT
    • I really believe that doing Pilates for ab work is okay for a woman with prolapse, but you have to be dilligent about the form.

      Thanks for the explanation. It sounds like your trainer is working great for you! I was doing Pilates using a DVD and even though I tried to be mindful of the tummy scooping I'm sure my form was imperfect, especially since my abs are so weak -- I was probably using the wrong muscles to compensate. Having a trainer to help with my form would be awesome. Hopefully when I get referred to the PT she can help.

      I did the Pilates mat work three or four times a week for four months before my OB suggested it might be contributing to my prolapse -- at that point my cervix was just one finger joint inside my vagina. So I stopped exercising completely about ten days ago -- and this morning my cervix had raised to THREE finger joints up!

      Hey, could be a total coincidence, and clearly not exercising is NOT the solution to long-term pelvic floor fitness. :)

      #46; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:48:00 GMT
    • Just wanted to share something that I have been finding very helpful - sea sponge as a pessary. I just went through a really tough phase, where it seemed any work I had done on reversing/improving my prolapse was erased. I was in a lot of pain and feeling incredibly discouraged. Then I used my sea sponge as a pessary and have felt worlds better. It really seems to hold my uterus up into place & I don't have the pressure, leg pain/tired legs, and VV pain. I definately recommend it for anyone who has not tried it.

      Does anyone have an actual pessary? I am going to talk to my GYN about it when I go in a couple weeks. I'd love to hear how it has been for anyone who has BTDT.

      #47; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:49:00 GMT
    • :gloomy: My 17m dd has been ill and nursing a lot so I've been spending a lot of time online, including reading most of the new posts for hours. I happened upon this thread last night. I'd been feeling sore and irritated and swollen lately and now I am pretty sure i know why. :gloomy:

      I'm going to make an appointment with my ob/gyn on Monday to get the diagnosis and a referral for a P.T. At this point, I feel an official diagnosis is moot. I noticed I looked different with a handheld mirror a couple of days ago and someone's description of vaginal music struck a chord with me. I have had that interesting skill for awhile now since the easy, no intervention, hospital waterbirth of my dd.

      Right now I am pretty teary. The surgical options all look pretty bleak, the physical therapy sounds promising but I am worried about finding the high skill it seems I'd need in a P.T. I want more babies--lots, really. I don't want bedrest and I don't want to stop carrying around my toddler. Heck, my 4yo wants to be carried every so often. I know I sound whiney but I feel really disappointed in my body. I am only 31 and so many things have gone wrong already.

      #48; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:50:00 GMT
    • this morning my cervix had raised to THREE finger joints up!

      It's back down again today ... only one finger joint needed. :gloomy:

      I remember TTC #1 how hard it was to reach the dratted thing. Those were the days! :lol

      Wish someone had told me straight out that if I didn't keep up my pelvic floor tone, my internal organs might fall out. I always thought they said do your Kegels so you wouldn't be incontinent as an 80-year-old, or some sort of FUTURE problem. I never suspected it might affect me as a 38-year-old.

      #49; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:51:00 GMT
    • Right now I am pretty teary. The surgical options all look pretty bleak, the physical therapy sounds promising but I am worried about finding the high skill it seems I'd need in a P.T. I want more babies--lots, really. I don't want bedrest and I don't want to stop carrying around my toddler. Heck, my 4yo wants to be carried every so often. I know I sound whiney but I feel really disappointed in my body. I am only 31 and so many things have gone wrong already.

      :Hug

      I'm sorry! And I know how you feel. I'm waiting for my appointment with my OB on 12/14 before freaking out too much -- my mom always says to not borrow trouble. Maybe things won't be so bad? But it's hard -- I was so ready to start TTC this month. :gloomy:

      Over the phone, at least, my OB said that uterine prolapse isn't usually a problem DURING pregnancy, as the uterus ascends above the pelvic bone early in the second trimester, and the bones help support it.

      Hey, and when you do get to see your doctor, make sure they examine you STANDING UP (and after you've just peed). I've seen one OB and one MW over the past two years, and although I told them I KNEW I had prolapse, they never saw it. It sort of disappears in the "supine lithotomy" position (every OB's favorite). :irked:

      I did a little Medline research at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez/, and here's the journal abstract:

      "Effects of a full bladder and patient positioning on pelvic organ prolapse assessment." Obstet Gynecol. 2004 Jul;104(1):37-41.

      OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the effect of bladder filling and patient position on the degree of pelvic organ prolapse (of the maximally prolapsed segment). METHODS: Fifty consecutive patients with symptomatic pelvic organ prolapse were evaluated between February 2003 and August 2003. Patients were examined in the supine lithotomy and standing position at maximal bladder capacity and then in the supine lithotomy and standing position with an empty bladder. The International Continence Society's Pelvic Organ Prolapse Quantification system was used. RESULTS: The mean descent of prolapse beyond the hymen was 0.39 cm in the full/supine setting, 1.3 cm, full/standing, 1.9 cm, empty/supine, and 2.7 cm, empty/standing. All mean paired differences in the six examination pairs (empty/standing compared with empty/supine, full/standing compared with full/supine, full/standing compared with empty/standing, full/supine compared with empty/supine, full/standing compared with empty/supine, and full/supine compared with empty/standing) were statistically significantly different. The largest mean paired difference was noted in the full/supine compared with empty/standing pair (-2.3, 95% confidence interval -2.8 to -1.8, P <.001). Age and parity were not associated with differences in measurements taken in the different examination conditions. Using a linear regression model to control for body mass index, maximal bladder capacity, and Pelvic Organ Prolapse Quantification system stage, it was found that the values were still statistically significant. Full/supine compared with empty/standing pairs were significantly more likely to be upstaged by 1 stage (P <.001), or by 2 stages (P =.049), but not by 3 stages (P =.061). CONCLUSION: Unless a patient is examined in the standing position with an empty bladder, the full extent of the prolapse may not be appreciated.

      I'm going to bring my OB a copy of the abstract!

      #50; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:52:00 GMT
    • It's back down again today ... only one finger joint needed. :gloomy:

      I remember TTC #1 how hard it was to reach the dratted thing. Those were the days! :lol

      Wish someone had told me straight out that if I didn't keep up my pelvic floor tone, my internal organs might fall out. I always thought they said do your Kegels so you wouldn't be incontinent as an 80-year-old, or some sort of FUTURE problem. I never suspected it might affect me as a 38-year-old.

      Hugs, Nicole. Mine also will seem better one day and worse the next. I agree-- I wish we knew more in advance about kegels and pelvic health! I'm 34 and I really don't want to be struggling to hold my uterus in for the next 50 years. Gah. Please let us know how it goes with the PT. I'm going to look into it, too. Thanks for the great reference on standing exams. Seems so obvious!

      Hugs to you, too, bonbon.

      I still haven't ordered any books or DVDs. I try to focus on my posture and kegels. But now I worry I'm doing them all wrong...

      #51; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:53:00 GMT
    • I ordered "The Core Program" and "Beyond Kegels" (my holiday gift to myself) on the advice of a local women's health therapist. They haven't arrived yet but I'll let everyone know how it goes.

      I too seem to have "good" days and "bad" days and so far I haven't been able to figure out if there is anything specific that I do that influences it. I'm wondering about hormonal shifts as dd2 grows and nurses more/less on a given day. I had a lot of vaginal pain and irritation during the first year of nursing dd1 (and she was a c/s so there was no vag trauma at all) due to hormones so I'm betting something similar is happening this time.

      #52; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:54:00 GMT
    • I got into see my ob/gyn yesterday afternoon and things are ultimately better than I thought they were. My uterus is prolapsed, unfortunately so are all the other pelvic organs, but it is still at a stage where he doesn't feel surgery should be considered. I have a referral for a physical therapist who specializes in pelvic floor rehabilitiation. I was so relieved after he said no to surgery that I was positively giddy--a strange reaction to a prolapse diagnosis, I'm sure. Btw, thanks for the heads up about exam position changing the results an exam. I had the doctor check me in an upright position and I made sure that I used the bathroom before the appointment started.
      #53; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:55:00 GMT
    • I got into see my ob/gyn yesterday afternoon and things are ultimately better than I thought they were. My uterus is prolapsed, unfortunately so are all the other pelvic organs, but it is still at a stage where he doesn't feel surgery should be considered. I have a referral for a physical therapist who specializes in pelvic floor rehabilitiation. I was so relieved after he said no to surgery that I was positively giddy--a strange reaction to a prolapse diagnosis, I'm sure. Btw, thanks for the heads up about exam position changing the results an exam. I had the doctor check me in an upright position and I made sure that I used the bathroom before the appointment started.

      I don't know whether to say "congratulations" or "I'm sorry" about your diagnosis! :lol What I mean is, I'm really glad things aren't so bad that you need surgery.

      Did the doctor tell you what official stage your prolapse(s) are? And what did the doctor think about future pregnancies for you? No mention of bedrest, I hope. (I'm curious because although I'm waiting to TTC until my appointment with the OB on the 14th, and probably until I get to see the PT, I'm not going to KEEP waiting while I undergo months of physical therapy. So I'll no doubt be pregnant with the prolapse I already have.)

      #54; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:56:00 GMT
    • I ordered "The Core Program" and "Beyond Kegels" (my holiday gift to myself) on the advice of a local women's health therapist. They haven't arrived yet but I'll let everyone know how it goes.

      Yes, please let us know!

      I got into see my ob/gyn yesterday afternoon and things are ultimately better than I thought they were. My uterus is prolapsed, unfortunately so are all the other pelvic organs, but it is still at a stage where he doesn't feel surgery should be considered. I have a referral for a physical therapist who specializes in pelvic floor rehabilitiation. I was so relieved after he said no to surgery that I was positively giddy--a strange reaction to a prolapse diagnosis, I'm sure. Btw, thanks for the heads up about exam position changing the results an exam. I had the doctor check me in an upright position and I made sure that I used the bathroom before the appointment started.

      Glad to hear that things are better than you thought!

      #55; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:57:00 GMT
    • Well, I got the idea that future pregnancies would not be affected. I want several more and he has me noted as saying that in my chart several times, :loveeyes:. I don't want to start another pregnancy without healing from this damage, personally. I feel that if I damaged myself more with another pregnancy I may bring myself closer to needing a surgery in the future. I asked several times if I should watch any activities, lifting, etc. and he said "no". He advised me to start P.T. and to be use proper lifting techniques and that was the end of it. I would think that would have mentioned bedrest during pregnancy if that was even approaching possible. hth.

      Thank you for the strange circumstantial congratulations. I feel the same way. :dizzy:

      He said I had a stage 1 rectocele & cystocele, and a stage 2 uterine prolapse.

      #56; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:58:00 GMT
    • I agree with the "stretching" idea...

      Also, with shoulder dystocia, it's more common in births with a loooong pushing stage OR births with a precipitous pushing stage. My opinion is that a long second stage is suggesting that there could be some sort of fit problem (babe needs more time to move, or isn't coming out exactly "right") but in a really fast second stage maybe the babe isn't totally on target either but they're just pushing their way out anyway. I do know bladder prolapse can be a side effect of SD since the "stuck" shoulder can bang into the bladder and really smoosh things all to heck.

      So, maybe in a precipitous labor (even without SD) there is a greater chance of the babe smacking into things in their "hurry" to come out?

      I don't know if that makes sense...I need more coffee!

      #57; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:20:00 GMT
    • So one question I have is: if "breathing the baby out" is supposed to be good, then why is a rapid birth (during which I was breathing as much as I could, until my body "grunted" the baby out) supposed to be harder on the pelvic organs? Anyone know WHY precipitous deliveries cause trouble?

      Both of my UCs were exactly 3 hours, which is just long enough to not be considered precipitous (precipitous, I believe, is less than 3 hours). I read about it somewhere, and questioned the midwife I use for prenatal care. I had always felt blessed to have fast births because my midwife was of the mind that fast labors are usually the uncomplicated births, as in everything is lined up just right so there's nothing to slow it down. That's a good thing for unassisted births! She kind of "pshaw'ed" the whole idea that precipitous deliveries caused problems, because in her own practice, that's never been the case.

      My issues with prolapse were caused by a hospital birth, and I'm no worse for the wear from my subsequent speedy deliveries.

      #58; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:21:00 GMT
    • I didn't feel like my fast birth caused problems, either... like you said, everything was lined up and no problems to slow things down. I believe my issues began when I got a bad cough about 2 weeks PP. Just a guess, but I had been feeling really good before I got sick. I was just kind of curious about that.

      thanks, all!

      #59; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:22:00 GMT
    • That;s the thing, doing nothing seems to make things worse, once i get out the door and working (horse trainer so physical work) my cervix starts to move back up (a little). From all I have read this is opposite of what should be happening...?

      I have been taking sepia, thank you! How often did you take it?

      I did not have an answer to the horseback riding question! I'm so glad threadbey did. It makes a lot of sense too...

      looking at te whole woman site, horseback riding is the ONLY activity i've ever done that encouraged the posture she recommends (tailbone tilted slightly up). i would think even when you weren't riding, you might tend to stand that way?

      I do take the sepia. I got this advise from my "Hearts & Hands, A Midwife's Guide". I buy the strongest potency available at Whole Foods. The book suggest 200C. Can't find 200C at any health store but you can order it online. The 30C works fine for me anyways. I can't explain why it works since the store guide to homeopathic remedies say its for moods, but it seems to work.

      #60; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:23:00 GMT
    • i was nervous about how i would feel and how dh would feel. he says he can't tell any thing's different i was a little uncomfortable the first few times, but it's great now - as good as pre-baby, i'd say.

      That gives me hope. Since meeting my current husband 2 years ago my sexuality has become an important part of my life. It's become something I look forward to and enjoy whereas before him it was a chore. Since discovering my prolapse I've worried a lot that I'll never be able to enjoy sex again. How can I enjoy sex when all I can think about is my bladder falling out of my vagina? And I worry that my Dh won't be satisfied anymore. Since things are so different to me how can he not feel a difference, kwim?

      Here's a really embarassing question that I can't believe I am asking but here goes. Since my prolapse air gets trapped up there and inevitably comes out making a very embarassing noise. Please, please tell me I'm not the only one. During the day it doesn't bother me so much because I can just blame it on the kids. :lol But I would be mortified if this happened during sex. It's bad enough that I feel like I have to hold my insides in and can't empty my bladder or bowel all the way. Now I have to worry about vaginal farts too? This is when I either laugh until I cry or cry until I laugh. :lol

      #61; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:56:00 GMT
    • goatriffic,you are NOT the only one. :)
      #62; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:57:00 GMT
    • :lol There's even a wikipedia page... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaginal_flatulence

      Queefing (the term I know) is pretty common after/during some sex positions and, well...as the wiki points out it even features in some adult films! Not that that is exactly a positive thing, but yeah... fanny farts are normal. Even for women with no history of pelvic floor problems.

      hugs mama...

      #63; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:58:00 GMT
    • Here's a really embarassing question that I can't believe I am asking but here goes. Since my prolapse air gets trapped up there and inevitably comes out making a very embarassing noise. Please, please tell me I'm not the only one. During the day it doesn't bother me so much because I can just blame it on the kids. :lol But I would be mortified if this happened during sex. It's bad enough that I feel like I have to hold my insides in and can't empty my bladder or bowel all the way. Now I have to worry about vaginal farts too? This is when I either laugh until I cry or cry until I laugh. :lol

      it's happened to me a few times - dh and i just laugh about it. :) don't be mortified! after all, what's the point of being married?

      #64; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:59:00 GMT
    • New to the thread...

      Hi, all! I can't exactly say I'm proud to be here, but... I am glad to find such a nice group of ladies. :innocent

      I didn't realize I had a prolapse- didn't have a name to put on it- until a gyn appointment last summer (2006), when my youngest was 1 1/2. That gyn told me vaguely what was up and handed me a brochure for pessaries and was very surprised that I wasn't peeing my pants all the time. I was mortified, as many have mentioned here... and pretty much decided to ignore it and hope it'd go away. I've probably been prolapsey (new word!) for over 4 years now, since my first son was born, but have been so constantly distracted that I never paid much attention. Yes, I pee when I sneeze. Yes, I get tired extremely easily when walking, sweeping, carrying things. Yes my poor abs haven't seen each other in over 9 years, since my first was born (diastasis). And yes I also have pelvic symphysis (or however it's spelled.) Apparently I'm a bigger mess than I realized. *sigh*

      Well... now I'm 19 weeks pregnant again. And, OH MY GOODNESS, can I tell I have zero pelvic floor. The baby is incredibly low. I can't bend over without a stab of pain in my bladder. Heck, when my midwife pressed (not that hard really) on my belly to measure my fundus it hurt like hell... around where I think my poor pancake of a bladder is.

      I imagine this is going to get a lot worse... I mean... I grow big babies and I'm not quite halfway yet. Yikes.

      I plan to start seeing a chiro for my pelvic symphysis as soon as I can afford it. That might help with the prolapse, right? And I've totally changed the way I eat, thanks to suddenly discovering that I have Celiac disease. So... better nutrition ought to help, just as it helps everything. But, what else can I do? Has anyone here been pregnant again with this?

      #65; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:26:00 GMT
    • New to the thread...

      Hi, all! I can't exactly say I'm proud to be here, but... I am glad to find such a nice group of ladies. :innocent

      I didn't realize I had a prolapse- didn't have a name to put on it- until a gyn appointment last summer (2006), when my youngest was 1 1/2. That gyn told me vaguely what was up and handed me a brochure for pessaries and was very surprised that I wasn't peeing my pants all the time. I was mortified, as many have mentioned here... and pretty much decided to ignore it and hope it'd go away. I've probably been prolapsey (new word!) for over 4 years now, since my first son was born, but have been so constantly distracted that I never paid much attention. Yes, I pee when I sneeze. Yes, I get tired extremely easily when walking, sweeping, carrying things. Yes my poor abs haven't seen each other in over 9 years, since my first was born (diastasis). And yes I also have pelvic symphysis (or however it's spelled.) Apparently I'm a bigger mess than I realized. *sigh*

      Well... now I'm 19 weeks pregnant again. And, OH MY GOODNESS, can I tell I have zero pelvic floor. The baby is incredibly low. I can't bend over without a stab of pain in my bladder. Heck, when my midwife pressed (not that hard really) on my belly to measure my fundus it hurt like hell... around where I think my poor pancake of a bladder is.

      I imagine this is going to get a lot worse... I mean... I grow big babies and I'm not quite halfway yet. Yikes.

      I plan to start seeing a chiro for my pelvic symphysis as soon as I can afford it. That might help with the prolapse, right? And I've totally changed the way I eat, thanks to suddenly discovering that I have Celiac disease. So... better nutrition ought to help, just as it helps everything. But, what else can I do? Has anyone here been pregnant again with this?

      Hello and welcome :shy...

      I so know what you mean about just wishing the prolapse will go away and sort of ignorning it. Because really, if you don't ignore it, at least sometimes, it can really make you depressed.

      Congrats on your pregnancy! I think seeing a chiropractor is awesome. Also, I have a friend who trained with a woman named Jennifer Gianni who is a Pilates instructor who had a class specifically for pregnant women that focuses mostly, if not completely, on the pelvic floor muslces. My friend did her Pilates class during her pregnancy and she had a natural, home birth and didn't even tear at all, which I think says something about how strong her pelvic floor muscles were for the delivery. I think Jennifer moved to North Carolina (?), but she has a Pregnancy Pilates DVD out, here's a link to it on Amazon.com...

      http://www.amazon.com/Jennifer-Giannis-Fusion-Pilates-Pregnancy/dp/B0001FZB6M/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1195353061&sr=1-3

      I don't know how good it is, but my friend LOVED Jennifer's class and thought it really made a difference. Also, you could look for a Pilates instructor in your area that specializes in pregnancy.

      I just started doing Pilates sessions for my grade 1 uterine prolapse and I really felt a difference after the first one. I didn't feel that heaviness for about a day and I'm assuming that the more I do it, the stronger and better I will feel. My instructor had never worked with someone with a prolapse before, but pelvic floor exercises are pelvic floor exercises! I am also getting ab work in there since all those muscles are connected and it feels sooooo good since I'd been avoiding ab work because I didn't want to make the prolapse worse!

      Good luck and I hope that helps! :wink

      #66; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:26:00 GMT
    • My MW suggested doing kegels like crazy for a month and then we'll check in again. I need to read that Whole Woman site, too. She seemed surprised at the degree of prolapse I described after just one baby.

      I'm a little scared, but hopeful.

      Thank you for this thread and good luck to all.

      #67; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:27:00 GMT
    • My MW suggested doing kegels like crazy for a month and then we'll check in again. I need to read that Whole Woman site, too. She seemed surprised at the degree of prolapse I described after just one baby.

      I'm a little scared, but hopeful.

      Thank you for this thread and good luck to all.

      my mw didn't even believe me over the phone when i told her i could see my cervix hanging out of my body! it's gotten a lot better in the 8 months since birth. i do have trouble fully emptying my bladder and i have some strange pains sometimes, but nothing else is actually BOTHERING me. i know my cervix is low, but if i don't think about it, it's not a problem, so i'm trying to forget about it. and trying to do more exercises/improve my posture.

      #68; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:29:00 GMT
    • That is great you've seen so much improvement! Did you do anything to help it along, or is it mostly just the time passing that has helped?

      I get paranoid that if I have more babies, all of my innards will come flying out with the baby... "Here is your baby!... and your bladder!... and your uterus!..." etc.

      Ugh.

      #69; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:29:00 GMT
    • I get paranoid that if I have more babies, all of my innards will come flying out with the baby... "Here is your baby!... and your bladder!... and your uterus!..." etc.

      I know the feeling...especially since I had a 4th degree tear. You know, all the crunchy books say "it feels like you're being split open but it's okay, you're okay". Well...I really did tear in two so I'm not so confident about that any more.

      #70; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:31:00 GMT
    • New to the thread...

      Hi, all! I can't exactly say I'm proud to be here, but... I am glad to find such a nice group of ladies. :innocent

      I didn't realize I had a prolapse- didn't have a name to put on it- until a gyn appointment last summer (2006), when my youngest was 1 1/2. That gyn told me vaguely what was up and handed me a brochure for pessaries and was very surprised that I wasn't peeing my pants all the time. I was mortified, as many have mentioned here... and pretty much decided to ignore it and hope it'd go away. I've probably been prolapsey (new word!) for over 4 years now, since my first son was born, but have been so constantly distracted that I never paid much attention. Yes, I pee when I sneeze. Yes, I get tired extremely easily when walking, sweeping, carrying things. Yes my poor abs haven't seen each other in over 9 years, since my first was born (diastasis). And yes I also have pelvic symphysis (or however it's spelled.) Apparently I'm a bigger mess than I realized. *sigh*

      Well... now I'm 19 weeks pregnant again. And, OH MY GOODNESS, can I tell I have zero pelvic floor. The baby is incredibly low. I can't bend over without a stab of pain in my bladder. Heck, when my midwife pressed (not that hard really) on my belly to measure my fundus it hurt like hell... around where I think my poor pancake of a bladder is.

      I imagine this is going to get a lot worse... I mean... I grow big babies and I'm not quite halfway yet. Yikes.

      I plan to start seeing a chiro for my pelvic symphysis as soon as I can afford it. That might help with the prolapse, right? And I've totally changed the way I eat, thanks to suddenly discovering that I have Celiac disease. So... better nutrition ought to help, just as it helps everything. But, what else can I do? Has anyone here been pregnant again with this?

      Reading your post has me thinking - it's possible I've had mild prolapse since the birth of my first child. I had already had a tipped uterus, which I read can contribute to uterine prolapse. I remember having tons of pressure - like a bowling ball threatening to fall out of my vagina - after the birth. When I went in for my 6-week postpartum checkup, the OB mentioned that I had lost a lot of muscle tone down there and to do a lot of kegels. I didn't inquire further because quite frankly the guy was a major UA violation. I don't know where my cervix was at that point, because I never bothered checking out my cervix until we were ttc'ing a year later. My second pregnancy, I carried very, very low throughout and always had a lot of pressure on my pelvic floor - it felt like I had no support. Hmmm.

      Cornpicker, I know exactly what you mean. I'm terrified of having a third baby and looking down and seeing my bladder and uterus hanging out of my body. Ever do a google image search for uterine prolapse? :jaw

      Happy2bamama, are you doing "regular" pilates, or pilates specifically for the pelvic floor? I had been staying away from pilates because I thought that was a no-no for prolapse. Please forgive my ignorance!

      #71; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:32:00 GMT
    • Happy2bamama, are you doing "regular" pilates, or pilates specifically for the pelvic floor? I had been staying away from pilates because I thought that was a no-no for prolapse. Please forgive my ignorance!

      I guess I am doing regular Pilates, but I have talked with my trainer about the issue and she's done some research and knows how to handle it. I really wanted to find a trainer who'd worked with other prolapse survivors (ha ha) or even just one that had had a baby, but go figure - there are not a lot of Pilates instructors with babies! I really love my trainer even though she hasn't had kids yet...

      Basically, in Pilates, I don't believe there is any way to worsen a prolapse unless you go too hard (or do it improperly). With the correct instruction, to my knowledge, all of the exercises help strengthen your core and pelvic muscles, which positively affects your prolapse. I should stress that I think the correct instruction and placement is the key. You need to have a trainer that really understands the body and how it works. My trainer seems kind of like a chiropractor or something in that she can see how I pronate my left leg and how my pelvis is just a bit off. I would not totally feel comfortable taking a mat Pilates group class or doing a DVD until I had been instructed on the proper alignment (neutral spine position). It is amazing - I can make the most minor tweak in breathing or movement and my trainer can tell me what and did and why it was either right or wrong. It's been taking some getting used to since I'm really using my brain more than I want to to make sure that everything's in the right place!

      I have to say, my body feels awesome after a session. I cannot even feel a tinge of prolapse. I can't really afford to do these privates (I'm going twice a week), but I also can't afford to have my uterus hanging out of my body either, so for me, taking care of this is a priority. And, I've been noticing too that now when I do kegels, they are so much stronger than before, so I can really feel a difference with that too.

      Hope that helps! :wink

      #72; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:33:00 GMT
    • the general consensus is that pilates instruction on the reformer is great for prolapse. this has certainly been my experience. i used to do it one on one in physical therapy, and now i take a pilates allegro reformer group class at the gym. the teachers have been great and the classes are quite small so there's still quite a bit of individualized instruction.

      pilates mat classes, on the other hand, are a big no-no for prolapse. i used to take them a long time ago and i can see how they would be a problem. some of the positions are really bad for prolapse, unfortunately.

      #73; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:34:00 GMT
    • the general consensus is that pilates instruction on the reformer is great for prolapse. this has certainly been my experience. i used to do it one on one in physical therapy, and now i take a pilates allegro reformer group class at the gym. the teachers have been great and the classes are quite small so there's still quite a bit of individualized instruction.

      pilates mat classes, on the other hand, are a big no-no for prolapse. i used to take them a long time ago and i can see how they would be a problem. some of the positions are really bad for prolapse, unfortunately.

      This is exactly what my PT said. She also cautioned against yoga. I plan on taking reformer sessions when my babe gets a little older.

      #74; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:35:00 GMT
    • This is exactly what my PT said. She also cautioned against yoga. I plan on taking reformer sessions when my babe gets a little older.

      Funny you should say that yoga shouldn't be done - yesterday I did a class and afterward, I felt my prolapse more and thought, "How can this be? Yoga is so good for you!" :irked: Do you know exactly why yoga is bad for a prolapse? I LOVE yoga and so need the stretching for my back and legs and I'm wondering if I could continue to do it if I make some adjustments to certain poses or avoided certain positions. Come to think of it, it seems to me like downward dog causes your internal organs to push back (and out, I guess) rather than pull in, hmmm. Don't know if I'd want to take a yoga classa and forgo downward dog since that's the bread and butter of yoga. Any thoughts?

      #75; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:36:00 GMT
    • Yes, I'm curious re: yoga, too. I hope there is a way to continue...
      #76; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:37:00 GMT
    • Ok, this is from the FAQ page on www.wholewoman.com:

      16. WHAT ABOUT YOGA AND PILATES?

      Hatha yoga is a physical and spiritual discipline that was historically practiced by male ascetics in India. Traditional Indian women did not practice “yoga” as we know it in America. Rather, in ancient times women were temple dancers who perfected a beautiful form of movement that reinforces all elements of natural female posture.

      Like the ancient tradition of yoga, Pilates is a form of exercise created by and for the male body. The original core mat program of Pilates places the body in a wide V-shape, with head and feet held off the floor. This sends tremendous stress to the pelvic diaphragm, an area that is compromised for many women.

      Women certainly need core training. However, we have a differently shaped core than men. Men have a relatively straight torso and women have an L-shaped torso due to the pelvis being at right angles to the abdominal wall. Women benefit most from exercises that work both the abdominal muscles and the gluteal muscles at the same time.

      Yoga and Pilates can be appreciated by men and women alike, but it is best to be aware of posiitons that send undue pressure to the female pelvic diaphragm.

      Here is a list of poses that present a problem for women due to extreme increases in pressures exerted against the pelvic diaphragm: all variations of the sitting boat pose and the classic Pilates mat program; the camel; the fish; the locust; lumbar lifts and lumbar presses; the warrior; lateral angle lunges with or without twists; the bridge; the wheel and all passive supine backbending. Even tadasana challenges us to conform to the male spine.

      17. WHAT ABOUT INVERTED POSES?

      Inversion boards and poses are great for such things as improving circulation, but these have no lasting effect on prolapse. The work gets done when we’re on our feet.

      #77; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:38:00 GMT
    • I bet something more gentle... like svaroopa or kundalini...would be a healing yoga form for a prolapse mama. It seems to me that there are always more women in those styles as well. Of course, those two forms also offer less of the "traditional american fitness" mentality so I guess it depends what you want to get out of yoga.
      #78; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:39:00 GMT
    • I really wanted to find a trainer who'd worked with other prolapse survivors (ha ha) or even just one that had had a baby, but go figure - there are not a lot of Pilates instructors with babies!

      seriously, this is so frustrating. i feel like so many people seem to have this problem that it should be something that pilates/yoga/whatever instructors can help with!!

      That is great you've seen so much improvement! Did you do anything to help it along, or is it mostly just the time passing that has helped?

      i think this question was for me, sorry for taking so long. what happened for me was, i noticed the prolapse (visually) about 3 days after birth. i had had a cough and i wonder if that's what did it, finally, although i also know i was on my feet too much (and i have no lumbar curve). i freaked out and put myself on bed rest for two weeks. i mean, i did not get into a vertical position sitting or standing for two weeks. i nursed only in the side-lying position i crawled the twenty feet to the shower and showered on my hands and knees (mil was kind enough to buy one of those foamy/cushiony mats for the tub!). i peed into a bowl (the placenta bowl from my homebirth, actually) in a hands and knees position. i won't go into details about poop, but chux pads were useful and my husband is a saint. any time i felt my cervix pushing out again (and at least once a day for weeks), i put my butt up in the air, my head down on the ground, and kegeled until it slurped back inside, then i lay down. i know whole woman says there's no point in trying to use gravity to get your organs back in place, but i kind of think in the immediate post partum phase, the situation is different. the way i see it (with no medical training whatsoever) the body is really working to shrink the uterus and tighten things up in the post partum period - i figure why not give it the best chance by having the organs resting as close to where they should be as possible? then the ligaments can just tighten up, not have to actually haul the organs uphill. :o i did a lot of kegels at first, too, sometimes with a mirror to try to see what was happening (this was my mw's suggestion and it did help - i changed the way i was doing them a bit). the kegels were really hard at first and seemed to do almost nothing. it was frustrating. but it is better now. in the end, i don't know if anything i did or didn't do had an effect, it might have just been time passing. and things aren't perfect - but at least i can't see my cervix anymore! it's actually pretty far back up there now, in comparison.

      I get paranoid that if I have more babies, all of my innards will come flying out with the baby... "Here is your baby!... and your bladder!... and your uterus!..."

      :lol i worry, too. i plan on just being as careful and aware as i can and hoping for the best.

      Funny you should say that yoga shouldn't be done - yesterday I did a class and afterward, I felt my prolapse more and thought, "How can this be? Yoga is so good for you!" :irked: Do you know exactly why yoga is bad for a prolapse? I LOVE yoga and so need the stretching for my back and legs and I'm wondering if I could continue to do it if I make some adjustments to certain poses or avoided certain positions. Come to think of it, it seems to me like downward dog causes your internal organs to push back (and out, I guess) rather than pull in, hmmm. Don't know if I'd want to take a yoga classa and forgo downward dog since that's the bread and butter of yoga. Any thoughts?

      i actually think it's more pilates-type poses like boat pose that are not a good idea. the dvd whole woman sells has a little routine that i like to do and it does include the downward dog. i think it's a great pose.

      #79; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:40:00 GMT
    • Just joining the thread -- and the forums! I've been reading this thread for a few weeks, and it inspired me to join you.

      I suspect I've had a minor prolapsed uterus and bladder (undiagnosed by my OB, since she always examined me on my back) since my son was born 26 months ago. But in the last few months I've made it worse by exercising! We were hoping to begin TTC #2 this month, so I stepped up the Pilates mat exercises and Kegels. But now when I check my cervical position I can feel it RIGHT THERE. So creepy!

      After having a wonderful, easy, empowering natural birth, I totally agree with the previous posters who feel like somehow their bodies have finally failed them. Instead of my previous confidence, now I'm scared for what will happen with pregnancy and delivery for #2.

      When I'm standing straight up and insert my index finger into my vagina, I can feel my cervix within an inch of the opening. (I also feel my bladder bulging out.) When I finally told my OB this fact, she told me to stop doing the Pilates crunches, or any other exercise that compresses the midsection or involves bearing down. Then she suggested I come in for an appointment mid-December so she can refer me to a physical therapist to help recondition my pelvic floor. Worse, she suggested I not get pregnant until I've seen the PT.

      I'm so disappointed. I'll be 38 next week and I don't have that much time to spare! But I want to be strong and fit for this pregnancy, and I want it to be complication-free so I can have a homebirth, so I'll try to wait.

      P.S. Has anyone regularly done the DVD of exercises from the Well Woman site? I'm tempted to order it, but maybe I'll wait to see what the PT has to say first.

      #80; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:41:00 GMT
    • i actually think it's more pilates-type poses like boat pose that are not a good idea. the dvd whole woman sells has a little routine that i like to do and it does include the downward dog. i think it's a great pose.

      I think that even the boat pose can be okay if the correct alignment is used. Since it engages the abs and pelvic floor, if you are breathing correctly and pulling in on those lower abs rather than pushing out and straining while engaging the pelvic floor muscles, I think it can actually be a GREAT strengthener. But that's the thing, I wouldn't recommend it to a beginner. It would be one of those things to work towards.

      I'm glad to hear that downward dog is ok to do - I love that pose!

      #81; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:42:00 GMT
    • welcome to MDC, nicole!

      i have the whole woman dvd and i do like the exercise routine, but be forewarned the dvd is mostly christine explaining stuff about prolapse - very little of it is the exercises. and the exercise part is NOT designed for you to follow along with - you really just have to watch it several times and take notes and then do it on your own. i wish she offered a more user friendly follow-along dvd. sigh.

      good luck. i need to get referred to a pt. anyone know of a good one in the northern VA area?

      #82; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:43:00 GMT
    • Happy2bamama, thanks for explaining! There goes my Winsor Pilates. So is there any form of abdominal exercise that IS okay for women with prolapse? The Whole Woman site seems to only tell you what you can't do. Or am I missing something?
      #83; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:44:00 GMT
    • I looked up Christine's (wellwoman.com) book on amazon.com and you know how they do the "customers who bought this book also bought blah de blah!" and it made me curious if anyone else has tried any of the other resources out there. Apparently there is a world of info out there for my pelvic health dollar. I'm also curious about Christine's background, but could not find a bio, anyone?

      Do you think it is worth it to buy the book or DVD, or mostly just work on the posture?

      Thanks, all.

      #84; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:45:00 GMT
    • Hugs mama. Surgery doesn't mean no more children unless you decide to do a hysterectomy. A "sling" to hold organs in place is a common surgical option for treating prolapse and you can certainly have more children after that procedure...though you might be considered higher risk and have trouble finding a midwife who will attend your birth.

      The real "problem" is that another pregnancy will exert more pressure on the area and between the pressure and the stretching and the loosening power of the pregnancy hormones the benefits from the surgery are probably going to be undone and you'll be back where you started. That's why many doctors will advise holding off on surgery until after you're done having children. It's the same reason doctors usually wont suggest a surgical tummy tuck or diastasis correction if the woman is planning more children...the pregnancy and birth will undo the surgical correction.

      #85; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:22:00 GMT
    • I would have to go to the Dr to get the official diagnosis. I've never bothered to mention it since they don't have much to offer in the way to real healing, just surgery and drugs. Since my mom has dealt with all of it too, I just usually follow her recommendations since she got the Practitioner Licience as an H.H.P.

      But I thought that all women experience some degree of that muscle separating. The exercises I was talking about are for that over all tummy area and that helps lower back too. I also do backwards crunches, where I suck in for so long and do it over and over. I don't want to make it worse, so maybe the diagnosis would help.

      #86; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:24:00 GMT
    • Hi, Max! I'm not too happy about joining this thread, but it looks like I might be...

      I developed hemerrhoids when 8 months pregnant. The MWs said they would go away after the birth. I had a lovely HB, but in hindsight I think I was stressing my pelvic organs too much by straining to open things up. My daughter was born pretty quickly and I had 3 stitches afterward. PP, I assumed the rhoids were just not going away. I would have to push the bulge back in after pooping. (At first, it bulged more often than that, but it got better). It wasn't itchy like rhoids. I also noticed a bulge in my vagina sometimes, but just figured things were shifted after birth; no big deal.

      So after having to put my butt back in place every day, I decided to see a doctor. I made an apt thinking it was rhoids, but the more I read I'm realizing it must be a rectal prolapse. And now I'm scared. I see the dr. on the 29th. I should have done this much sooner; if any invasive treatments are needed, I won't want to do them during the school year (I'm a teacher). I'm probably jumping the gun and getting worried too soon, but Dr. Google won't let me just walk away and I'm imagining the worst.

      Anyway, that's my story. I hope you won't see too much more of me here!

      #87; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:24:00 GMT
    • Wow, so glad to have found this thread. I haven't had a chance to read all the way through it yet, but I wanted to make sure that everybody knows about www.wholewoman.com. It's a great website and forum. I have the book by the owner of the site, called Saving the Whole Woman. Christine's work has made such a huge difference in my life, both in my ability to physically and mentally deal with my problem. There are lots of women who have gone on to have natural childbirth even though they have prolapse, which gives me so much hope.

      My specific issue is a rectocele stemming from the forceps delivery of my first child. Luckily my next two births were UC, almost no pushing stage (I never actually pushed), so my prolapse didn't get much worse. I feel like my uterus isn't as high as it could be, but it's not low enough to be considered prolapsing, and I feel fortunate about that. I'm hoping to keep things from falling even more with postural work from the book I mentioned, so far things have gotten better, although I still have to be careful...no more moving furniture for me. When I'm trying get hubby to do some heavy lifting for me and he's feeling too lazy, I just say, "I guess I'll do it...I hope my uterus doens't fall out..." That gets him moving every time. :lol

      #88; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:26:00 GMT
    • Wow, so glad to have found this thread. I haven't had a chance to read all the way through it yet, but I wanted to make sure that everybody knows about www.wholewoman.com. It's a great website and forum. I have the book by the owner of the site, called Saving the Whole Woman. Christine's work has made such a huge difference in my life, both in my ability to physically and mentally deal with my problem. There are lots of women who have gone on to have natural childbirth even though they have prolapse, which gives me so much hope.

      My specific issue is a rectocele stemming from the forceps delivery of my first child. Luckily my next two births were UC, almost no pushing stage (I never actually pushed), so my prolapse didn't get much worse. I feel like my uterus isn't as high as it could be, but it's not low enough to be considered prolapsing, and I feel fortunate about that. I'm hoping to keep things from falling even more with postural work from the book I mentioned, so far things have gotten better, although I still have to be careful...no more moving furniture for me. When I'm trying get hubby to do some heavy lifting for me and he's feeling too lazy, I just say, "I guess I'll do it...I hope my uterus doens't fall out..." That gets him moving every time. :lol

      Yes I've seen that website! Its a great website:thumb I'm going to by her book and the exercise video she offers. Like, tomorrow! We get paid yea!!

      Your story with the forceps sounds a lot like my story. The OB (second OB for a second opinion) said my pelvic floor was shot when the OB that delivered my first child cut a fourth degree episiotomy and used forceps. He didn't even give me a chance to push. Maybe the no pushing thing might have been a good thing. I've been thinking a lot about a UC on our next delivery. Dh won't stand for it and I've become frighten of MW at least the one who helped me deliver my ds 3m ago. She ordered me to push on all three of my HB with her as my MW. Shot out a 10ber in 2 min and my recent baby was 9lb delivered in 4 min. I want to learn more about no pushing to deliver.

      "I guess I'll do it...I hope my uterus doens't fall out..." That gets him moving every time. :lol I do that too!!!:lol

      Hi, Max! I'm not too happy about joining this thread, but it looks like I might be...

      I developed hemerrhoids when 8 months pregnant. The MWs said they would go away after the birth. I had a lovely HB, but in hindsight I think I was stressing my pelvic organs too much by straining to open things up. My daughter was born pretty quickly and I had 3 stitches afterward. PP, I assumed the rhoids were just not going away. I would have to push the bulge back in after pooping. (At first, it bulged more often than that, but it got better). It wasn't itchy like rhoids. I also noticed a bulge in my vagina sometimes, but just figured things were shifted after birth; no big deal.

      So after having to put my butt back in place every day, I decided to see a doctor. I made an apt thinking it was rhoids, but the more I read I'm realizing it must be a rectal prolapse. And now I'm scared. I see the dr. on the 29th. I should have done this much sooner; if any invasive treatments are needed, I won't want to do them during the school year (I'm a teacher). I'm probably jumping the gun and getting worried too soon, but Dr. Google won't let me just walk away and I'm imagining the worst.

      Anyway, that's my story. I hope you won't see too much more of me here!

      :lol I needed that! This is a great place to normalize our situation! Don't let that doctor scare you! At least don't show it to him especially if he is trying to talk you into surgery. A lot of them will do that. Its how they sell their business. "If the cry they buy!" Let us know how the visit goes. How far along are you pp? I don't think I saw that in your post. Oh and Kudos your a teacher!! Very cool!:wink

      #89; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:27:00 GMT
    • :lol I needed that! This is a great place to normalize our situation! Don't let that doctor scare you! At least don't show it to him especially if he is trying to talk you into surgery. A lot of them will do that. Its how they sell their business. "If the cry they buy!" Let us know how the visit goes. How far along are you pp? I don't think I saw that in your post. Oh and Kudos your a teacher!! Very cool!:wink

      I'm almost 15 months PP. I feel a little silly that I've just been annoyed by this for so long and haven't done anything about it!

      #90; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:28:00 GMT
    • hi everyone. i'm Meg. i'm about 4 weeks PP(i know, still very early in the healing phase) and i'm pretty sure i have an uterine prolapse. DD was 9.5lbs and i pushed her out in less then 15 minutes. i can feel my cervix bulging out when i walk and it's much worse with BM's. i have my PP check up in less then 2 weeks and i'll be talking to the midwife about what i can do to help things get back in place. i the mean time i'll be researching like crazy. my mom had her uterus removed a few years ago due to prolapse and i'm hoping it will never have to come to surgery for me.
      #91; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:29:00 GMT
    • Hi meg-momto2! Wow your really early in the pp period! First of all, CONGRATULATIONS on your newest addition!!! I wish our MWs told us this could happen and counseled us on ways to avoid it. I would rest as much as possible. Please what ever you do DON'T strain on the toilet while having a BM. Try not to ever get constipated. At 4wks you have hope for a full recovery. Ever heard of 42 days for 42 years? There is a lot of truth to that. This is a standard care of AyurDoulas (http://www.sacredwindow.com/Care-FAQ.html). Again, REST as much as you can. If I could come to your house and do your :laundry , :dishes and cook for you I really would. Theres a need for cultural change in America! Everyone expects us to jump out bed as soon as we have a baby. Especially if we had a natural birth. For you, since your so early in the pp period, take some homeopathic Sepia 200C. I had the same thing happen to me after I had my ds. At one point I saw my cervix at the opening. Since taking the sepia ( I've been taking the sepia 30C b/c the 200C is hard to find. You have to order it. The 30C works for me and I got that at the vitamin shoppe.) My Midwife Handbook suggested the 200C...:blah

      Take care of your self. Hope all goes well at the next appointment with your Midwife.:wink Enjoy your babymoon!

      #92; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:30:00 GMT
    • thanks fruitful womb. i'm trying to rest but i'm one of those people who can't sit around and do nothing. i need to keep busy or i go crazy. i'm going to look for Sepia at some local supplement shops(lots here in Seattle) and see if my chiropractor can do anything to help. my mom also does cranial sacral work and i wonder if it will help. i know it's still early to worry too much about it. i just don't want to make it worse.
      #93; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:31:00 GMT
    • Hi Meg! Do try to take it easy. Try not to lift anything over 20 lbs. Prolapse is essentially a hernia. I know it's hard, but it's an investment in your long term health.

      It's interesting to me that some of you have mothers who also have/had prolapse. Did they talk to you about it prior to you giving birth? I think a lot about what I am going to tell my daughter. I don't know if prolapse is really avoidable if you have a genetic predisposition and vaginal births. C-sections might have been the better option for me - it might be the case for my daughter. But then I would hate for her to miss out on a vaginal delivery...

      #94; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:32:00 GMT
    • My mom also hada prolapse...and many women in her family have had them as well. Most (including her) have had hysterectomies but I'm not planning surgery (and I have a bladder prolapse, not a uterine prolapse anyway).

      Although vaginal delivery can aggravate a prolapse, and there are birth scenarios that contribute to prolapse, a planned c/s doesn't prevent prolapse. Much of the "damage" happens during pregnancy as tissues stretch and the pressure of the growing babe pulls on the body in new ways.

      In fact, my OB said my c/s may have contributed since I'm primarily dealing with a bladder prolapse...during a c/s the bladder is "detached" and moved out of the way so the surgeon can reach the uterus. So my bladder was already traumatized by the time I have my VBAC. I was lucky...several mamas here were left with permanent urinary incontenance after their c/s due to nerve damage. :(

      #95; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:33:00 GMT
    • my mom never really talked much about it. she would tell me stories about patients(she's a RN in L&D) or a friend or two who had prolapses but never talked about her own. i'm starting to think i had a minor prolapse after DS birth. no one ever mentioned prolapse to me so i figured it was how things were supposed to feel and look after a vaginal birth. i wish i had know more about this and tried some preventive measures. does anyone know if Cranial Sacral therapy can help?
      #96; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:34:00 GMT
    • my mom never really talked much about it. she would tell me stories about patients(she's a RN in L&D) or a friend or two who had prolapses but never talked about her own. i'm starting to think i had a minor prolapse after DS birth. no one ever mentioned prolapse to me so i figured it was how things were supposed to feel and look after a vaginal birth. i wish i had know more about this and tried some preventive measures. does anyone know if Cranial Sacral therapy can help?

      Sorry about not answering sooner. I don't know about cranial sacral therapy but I wonder if you would get the same results with myan uterine massage.

      http://www.arvigomassage.com/

      Check it out.

      I hear it works. I'm going to see a guy that knows about this type of massage. Soon, I hope. Let you know how it goes. I'll ask about the cranial sacral therapy as well. I can ask my dh but he is sleeping and I keep forgetting to ask. oh well.

      #97; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:35:00 GMT
    • I just looked at the Mayan massage website and was shocked to find a practitioner near me (we're pretty rural and I wasn't expecting that). I haven't seen a dr yet, but I think I'm probably dealing with just a rectal prolapse, but that massage seems to be more useful for uterine or bladder prolapses. Does anyone know if it is useful for rectal prolapse? I want to be armed with as much info as possible before seeing the dr (who is a surgeon, btw, so I feel like I need to be well-versed in non-surgical options beforehand). My regular dr is a DO; does anyone know if there's anything osteopathy can do to help? Homeopathy? Herbs? Anything? (I'm really grasping at straws now!)
      #98; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:36:00 GMT
    • Hello everyone & welcome to the new members to the tribe. (:wave Ecoteat)

      I've just returned from a week long camping trip. We had a wonderful time. I was worried that my prolapses would cause me problems w/all the physical activity, but I did pretty well. There were a couple times I needed to take ibuprofin & rest (my uterine prolapse really aggravates my PSD), but other than that I was in good shape. :thumb I really think the Mayan massage has been helping. My chiropractor noticed a difference in the feel of my uterus & I have been feeling much better.

      Amy, I would definately try the Mayan Massage, even for rectocele. It has so many benefits and if you have a rectocele, there is a good chance your uterus is off too. Many women here have had success w/homeopathic Sepia. I saw an osteopath about my prolapses, and she didn't have much to offer. (She even recommended the surgery.Boo!) But, perhaps yours will have a different perspective. Do be prepared when you see the surgeon for the surgery recommendations. It seems that surgery is the only way western docs know to treat this. If you haven't already, I recommend checking out wholewoman.com . I feel like her postures and exercises have also been really helpful. Good luck at the doctor!

      #99; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:37:00 GMT
    • Glad to have found this thread, I am 16 days PP and I think I have uterine prolapse. I am really freaked out by this as I am a horse trainer and I need to RIDE to make money. Am I totally screwed here? Really worried...
      #100; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:38:00 GMT
    • Glad to have found this thread, I am 16 days PP and I think I have uterine prolapse. I am really freaked out by this as I am a horse trainer and I need to RIDE to make money. Am I totally screwed here? Really worried...

      Try not to worry too much - you are early days still for a diagnosis, and your body is definately still healing. I would recommend resting as much as you can, doing some exercises to stregthen your pelvic floor, & you might also want to check out Mayan Uterine Massage. I have had some good results w/it. If you haven't looked into www.wholewoman.com yet, you may want to. It is a wealth of information.

      Perhaps you could wear a support garment while riding, to help hold everything in place? (I ride too, but have not in some time.)

      #101; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:39:00 GMT
    • Yes I've seen that website! Its a great website:thumb I'm going to by her book and the exercise video she offers. Like, tomorrow! We get paid yea!!

      If you haven't seen/tried it yet, Christine also highly recommends the dvd Dance the Chakras with Ana Brett. I bought my copy at Amazon. She says it's the closest thing to a woman's yoga she's found and that except for the one jack-knife pose it all keeps with the "Whole Woman" postures. I find that to be true. I feel great afterwards, instead of that "golf ball" sensation I usually have after anything too strenuous. My condition has continued to improve with the Whole Woman book and the dvd.

      Your story with the forceps sounds a lot like my story. The OB (second OB for a second opinion) said my pelvic floor was shot when the OB that delivered my first child cut a fourth degree episiotomy and used forceps. He didn't even give me a chance to push. Maybe the no pushing thing might have been a good thing. I've been thinking a lot about a UC on our next delivery. Dh won't stand for it and I've become frighten of MW at least the one who helped me deliver my ds 3m ago. She ordered me to push on all three of my HB with her as my MW. Shot out a 10ber in 2 min and my recent baby was 9lb delivered in 4 min. I want to learn more about no pushing to deliver.

      I did push for a while before the forceps (although my dr didn't even tell me she was going to do forceps, she just cut me and started jamming them in) but I was induced with a baby who hadn't even dropped yet, so the whole labor was slow going.

      Midwives are great if you have the right one. Maybe if you can find one you trust between now and then. I have a midwife I worked with throughout my pg to become educated and also to have a midwife if I felt I wanted one during labor. She's never been to a birth of mine, but she has assisted many of my friends' births and she's the most hands-off midwife possible (unless the mama wants her to be hands on). But you have to watch out, because I think midwives like to think they'll be hands off if you want, but sometimes their training takes over.

      The no-pushing thing is the way to go, wherever you birth. I was kneeling both times to shorten the birth canal and just breathed through contractions while my body literally ejected the babies. :lol Like having diarrhea of the uterus. :rotflmao It really only took a few minutes each time.

      For the record, my midwife has been at many births where the mama has "breathed out" the baby and says that most women will do that naturally if not urged to push, and if they are upright.

      Once again, great thread! I love finding a place to talk about this without feeling embarrassed or "defective".

      #102; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:40:00 GMT
    • Though I should add...not all babes breath their way out! I was upright/squatting (and hands and knees, and dangling, and side lying, etc) and undirected for 4 hours of uncontrollable pushing (no pressure to start pushing, no counting, no "just a little more")... and still needed "help" at the end to resolve a shoulder dystocia. Some day I'd love to simply breath out a babe but, well, that doesn't seem to be the way it works for me! :lol
      #103; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:41:00 GMT
    • Though I should add...not all babes breath their way out! I was upright/squatting (and hands and knees, and dangling, and side lying, etc) and undirected for 4 hours of uncontrollable pushing (no pressure to start pushing, no counting, no "just a little more")... and still needed "help" at the end to resolve a shoulder dystocia. Some day I'd love to simply breath out a babe but, well, that doesn't seem to be the way it works for me! :lol

      Oh, yes, thanks for pointing that out. Of course there are issues that can make it necessary for a mama to work harder to get the babe out. I think the midwife just meant that under normal circumstances, barring something like shoulder dystocia or malpositioning, that the body will evacuate the baby itself. It sounds funny to say it that way, but that's really what it felt like.

      #104; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:42:00 GMT
    • Coming out of the woodwork to thank everyone for this thread. I noticed my prolapse a few days after my 4th baby was born, 5 weeks ago. She was my biggest, 10lbs5oz, and I wonder if that contributed to the problem. I think I probably had a very mild cystocele before her but now I feel like I'm walking around with a baseball up there all the time. I'm fairly certain I have a cystocele and a rectocele. I haven't seen anyone about it yet because surgery isn't an option for me now, even if I did decide I wanted it.

      I've rested as much as possible since she was born. We pretty much hung out in bed and relaxed for the first 3 weeks. And I'm still taking it easy. But it doesn't seem to be getting better and I'm so angry. I know I probably shouldn't be but I am. I hate the way this feels. I hate that I can't do things that I want to do because I'm worried I'll make it worse. I hate that it bothers me so much. I hate that I have to ask for help to do things that I didn't even think twice about before, like lifting laundry baskets. I feel hopeless and depressed a lot and I don't really have anyone irl to talk to about this that understands. But I do feel better knowing I'm not alone, so thank you for this thread. The Whole Woman site is giving me some hope that maybe some day I won't think about my vagina all day long.

      #105; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:43:00 GMT
    • Directed pushing is so awful for your body! I can't stand seeing birth programs and them counting "ok now (watch monitor) PUSH 1,2,3..." Even a mama with an epidural can 'labor down' and be helped into a more upright position to avoid directed pushing.
      #106; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:44:00 GMT
    • I'm really perplexed about the pushing thing. I think when I was in labor I thought I was just trying to stay open, when in fact I was bearing down way too soon. My MWs didn't tell me what to do at all--they were wonderfully supportive, yet very hands-off. I am extremely happy about my birth experience with them. But now I'm starting to wonder: If I WAS actually pushing too soon, wouldn't they have noticed? Shouldn't they have said something? There was no point in my labor when I specifically felt a change; I never felt the urge to push. Everything just got gradually more and more intense until dd's head popped out just before her whole body slipped out with my next breath. Did I do this to myself? I'm upset with myself that what was a perfect and beautiful pregnancy and birth (or so I thought) led to what may be a rectocele and subsequent future duscussions of surgery, or avoiding it, or other treatments. If this is in fact a prolapse (I see the dr. Wed), I'll feel betrayed by my body--everything else worked so well in my childbearing year; why not this?
      #107; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:45:00 GMT
    • hugs ecoteat...I'm so sorry. It sounds like you weren't pushing "too soon". You were listening to and going with your body. You didn't do this to yourself, you didn't mess up, you didn't do it wrong. It stinks, and it's not fair, and it's normal to mourn... but this really is just something that happens and sometimes it just isn't anyone's "fault". Like stretch marks. Sometimes you do everything "right" and it doesn't matter.

      hang in there mama...

      #108; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:46:00 GMT
    • It stinks, and it's not fair, and it's normal to mourn... but this really is just something that happens and sometimes it just isn't anyone's "fault".

      This is a hard one for me. I planned a very hands off homebirth and got exactly what I wanted, in a good way. I pushed too early I think, not because I was directed to but because I wanted to be done and I wanted to meet my baby girl and I wrongly assumed she'd be born quickly once I started pushing. Now I'm wondering if it's my fault, if I did this to myself. And I'm so mad that vaginas can "fail" with normal use. I have only ever used my vagina for its intended purposes and now I feel broken. :(

      I know logically that I'm not and I know I need to move past this anger into acceptence so that I can work on making things better. Knowing all that doesn't make it easier to do.

      #109; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:47:00 GMT
    • This is a hard one for me. I planned a very hands off homebirth and got exactly what I wanted, in a good way. I pushed too early I think, not because I was directed to but because I wanted to be done and I wanted to meet my baby girl and I wrongly assumed she'd be born quickly once I started pushing. Now I'm wondering if it's my fault, if I did this to myself. And I'm so mad that vaginas can "fail" with normal use. I have only ever used my vagina for its intended purposes and now I feel broken. :(

      I know logically that I'm not and I know I need to move past this anger into acceptence so that I can work on making things better. Knowing all that doesn't make it easier to do.

      Did you sneak into my brain? Or my birth pool 15 months ago? :lol I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels like this, but I just can't get over the feeling that my body broke too. Isn't there some kind of warranty on vaginas and rectums? It sucks. I hope when I see the dr. tomorrow I find out it's not as bad as I think it is (which actually isn't nearly as bad as it could be), but I'm not getting too optimistic yet. She is a surgeon, after all.

      #110; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:48:00 GMT
    • Trust me...I know the feeling. It took me almost a year to recover emotionally/psychologically from my c/s and really it's still an ongoing battle almost 3 years later.

      And this tear/prolapse...if it weren't for the absolute high of the vbac I know I would be in a much harder position emotionally. As it was I spent a lot of time crying on DH's shoulder about how my body was/is broken. I mean come on...a c/s AND shoulder dystocia AND a 4th degree tear AND a prolapse? Obviously I am just not "made" to give birth no matter what the natural living mama in me wishes were true.

      Sigh.

      But I think it's important to remember that no matter what you feel in a given moment, the truth is none of this is your fault. It took me a year in therapy to come to that place after my c/s...and this time I'm trying to just keep that thought front and center when my mood starts turning down.

      #111; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:49:00 GMT
    • Coming out of the woodwork to thank everyone for this thread. I noticed my prolapse a few days after my 4th baby was born, 5 weeks ago. She was my biggest, 10lbs5oz, and I wonder if that contributed to the problem. I think I probably had a very mild cystocele before her but now I feel like I'm walking around with a baseball up there all the time. I'm fairly certain I have a cystocele and a rectocele. I haven't seen anyone about it yet because surgery isn't an option for me now, even if I did decide I wanted it.

      I've rested as much as possible since she was born. We pretty much hung out in bed and relaxed for the first 3 weeks. And I'm still taking it easy. But it doesn't seem to be getting better and I'm so angry. I know I probably shouldn't be but I am. I hate the way this feels. I hate that I can't do things that I want to do because I'm worried I'll make it worse. I hate that it bothers me so much. I hate that I have to ask for help to do things that I didn't even think twice about before, like lifting laundry baskets. I feel hopeless and depressed a lot and I don't really have anyone irl to talk to about this that understands. But I do feel better knowing I'm not alone, so thank you for this thread. The Whole Woman site is giving me some hope that maybe some day I won't think about my vagina all day long.

      I just wanted to give you hope that it will get better for you. You are only 5 weeks PP and for me, that was when I felt my prolapse the most. I didn't even know what it was at first, I just thought I had a stubborn clot that wouldn't pass (sorry TMI).

      Around 4 months PP, I saw a physical therapist who specializes in the pelvic floor and she did the most thorough pelvic exam on me ever. She inserted her finger(s) in my vagina and then told me to flex certain muscles and she could tell which tendons and muscles inside me were tight and/or out of whack and then after the exam, we did specific exercises based on that - whoa!! She diagnosed me with a grade 1 uterine prolapse. I was so elated by that because to me, it felt like my entire uterus was going to fall out, so to hear "grade 1" gave me hope.

      I am now almost 8 months PP and I rarely, if ever, feel the prolapse at all. What I feel more is a little, annoying hemmerhoid that won't go away (sorry again TMI)! I imagine (and hope) that as time goes on your prolapse will heal more and more. Hopefully you have a similar case, but either way, regardless of if you have a grade 1 or a grade 10 prolapse, time is the great healer (and kegels too!) and you are only at the beginning, so don't lose hope quite yet. :o I know it's hard to think that though when you just want to feel vibrant and not broken. :hug

      #112; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:50:00 GMT
    • I felt broken. I was so angry at my body for letting me down. I was resentful of all the other moms who seemingly had no problems postpartum. But, my mom and dh always had total confidence that I would heal. And I went to physical therapy, which made me feel more in control of my healing. My PT also had confidence that I would be fine. I'm now 4.5 mos pp and only feel the prolapse if I've slacked off on my exercises. At 2 weeks pp my cervix was coming out my vagina. There is hope. And (unfortunately) there are lots of us out there, so don't feel alone.
      #113; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:51:00 GMT
    • oh, thank you for this thread and i'm so glad i found it!

      i'm more than 5 months pp now and my prolapse isn't giving me serious issues anymore (although a few annoyances i've had - not peeing completely at one go, random backache - i didn't know until reading here were prolapse related).

      but i think the biggest issue for me is psychological! i took good care of myself during pregnancy, exercise, yoga, etc. and i've always been healthy, anyway. the birth was perfectly normal - about 11 hours after my water broke, only 45 min of pushing, normal position and everything. then a few days later, i was using the bathroom and washing myself off and SAW my cervix hanging out of me! it was horrifying.

      thankfully, my mw didn't think it was a major issue and i only thought i'd need surgery for the 10 min it took to get her on the phone :lol

      but i still feel really a little embarrassed by the prolapse issue and i can't figure out why. it doesn't help that my mother was shocked by the idea and told everyone that i was in bed because my "insides were falling out"! or that my mil did research on it and found that only "old" women or "out of shape" women or women with "long, difficult labors" or women with MANY children get prolapse... so i'm still here thinking "what's wrong with ME?" and wondering about future children.

      anyway, i'm glad to find you. i'm subbing. i'll read the previous several pages and come back.

      #114; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:52:00 GMT
    • Oh, I wanted to ask how your sex lives are affected? How your partners might feel about your changed vagina? Anyone think sex as exercise might be beneficial?

      had to respond here. i was nervous about how i would feel and how dh would feel. he says he can't tell any thing's different :rolleyes i was a little uncomfortable the first few times, but it's great now - as good as pre-baby, i'd say. i do have to essentially do a kegel at the same time... and, YES, i think it's good exercise!

      #115; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:53:00 GMT
    • Birth culture- I'm afraid the modern "natural birth" movement plays into this as well. Women want to demonstrate that birth is natural, that it's not something the med pros need to interfere with, that women are made to birth. So hours or even minutes after birth women try to be up and about to "prove" this (ignoring or "forgetting" the rest element that surrounded natural birth for hundreds of generations).

      ... It makes me wonder sometimes...I'm 100% in favor of natural birth and belive passionately in birth and in women's abilities, but sometimes I wonder if natural birth without the recovery support system is doing more harm then good for women's health. :( Again, no quick fixes or easy answers, just another example of the complex disfunction of modern times.

      i don't know wheather i was "proving" something, or if i just believed the sales pitch - that i'd feel fine and dandy afterwards if i did it at home with no drugs and no episiotomy. i DID feel fine - but it caught up with me. i was up and about too much. not a lot. but too much. next time around i am going to set things up so i have a real lying in and try to enjoy it (rather than going "omg - i can see my cervix!" and then imprisoning myself in bed for 2 weeks...) i think if everyone knows that's what i'm doing, it will be better.

      i also think that being told "take it easy for a while" just made me think "do whatever i want to do". i completely agree with pp that had anyone said anything about pop as a possible result of too much activity, i would have behaved differently!!!! i thought it was all about my comfort and happiness. had no idea there were long term consequences :duh

      it also seriously pisses me off that people (myself included) don't talk about post-partum issues. gory birth stories galore, but they all end with the impression that by a few days later, everything was fine (despite c/s, forceps, whatever...) which i just can't believe is the case.

      I'm really perplexed about the pushing thing. I think when I was in labor I thought I was just trying to stay open, when in fact I was bearing down way too soon. My MWs didn't tell me what to do at all--they were wonderfully supportive, yet very hands-off. I am extremely happy about my birth experience with them. But now I'm starting to wonder... feel betrayed by my body--everything else worked so well in my childbearing year; why not this?

      agree completely. i don't think i pushed too soon, but... i didn't ever feel an *overpowering* urge to push... but i wanted it over! i'll never know what the reasons for my prolapse were. probably a combo of lots of things.

      I felt broken. I was so angry at my body for letting me down. I was resentful of all the other moms who seemingly had no problems postpartum.

      same here. but i do wonder if they all really don't have problems...

      i'd love to see a good pt. not going to happen for a while, though. :gloomy:

      i've been trying to kegel - seemed very helpful at first, but not so much anymore. also doing crunches - oops. mw told me to! i'll check out that site next...

      #116; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:54:00 GMT
    • i have a cystocele and rectocele but have never had issues w it. i have always been told that its pretty normal after preg...and a large majoritry of women i have seen have at least one.

      i know docs like to recommend surgery or hysterectomy for this, which makes me sick.

      i blame our sedentary lifestyles as the #1 reason why this happens. forced pusahing comes a close 2nd. thoughts?

      sorry,nak

      #117; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:55:00 GMT
    • Very thankful for this thread. :o
      #118; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:20:00 GMT
    • this may be rather off-topic, but does anyone have advice about menstruation with prolapse? My guess is I'm limited to pads for now? My first inkling that anything was amiss after my first birth was 14 mo postpartum when i got my first period and - oops!- the tampon wouldn't stay in! yipe! now, after second birth, it's much worse and I can't imagine any other options besides pads... bleah. and what about swimming...?

      sigh.

      #119; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:21:00 GMT
    • I haven't started my menses since I had my baby. It wasn't until my last child that I discovered POP. I wonder about sea sponges. Ever try those? Personally I love to swim. Its the one exercise I feel that won't hurt my prolapse. I've heard different opinions about swimming tho. Like the chlorine isn't so great for pop. Not sure about that one either.
      #120; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:22:00 GMT
    • I haven't had AF return yet either, but Sea Sponges might be worth a try. They are pretty big, but you wet them to insert so the are easy to put in. Their shape just may work for you. If you've got to go w/pads, you may want to try cloth. ireally like my Luna Pads.
      #121; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:23:00 GMT
    • Thank you for sharing this pigpokey. How has it been for you since the surgery? How are you feeling? Do you see any improvements? Every now & then when I get overwhelmed I think maybe I should have the surgery, but I really am hoping to avoid it. It would be helpful to hear from someone who has been down this route.

      Certainly everything seems more normal to me now. It's not like before I had the babies but I have a vagina again and for that I am so happy. It's hard to say how I'll be at 50. I'm glad I did it. I can wear tampons again.

      #122; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:25:00 GMT
    • this may be rather off-topic, but does anyone have advice about menstruation with prolapse? My guess is I'm limited to pads for now? My first inkling that anything was amiss after my first birth was 14 mo postpartum when i got my first period and - oops!- the tampon wouldn't stay in! yipe! now, after second birth, it's much worse and I can't imagine any other options besides pads... bleah. and what about swimming...?

      sigh.

      sea sponges work great for me. they are more comfortable than the tampons that i used to use pre-prolapse, in fact. they look kind of large but remember that you wet them before inserting so they're very soft, and i insert it by bending forward and making sure that i get it up and over my pubic bone. i've been able to go to the beach and swim in a pool with it without any problems whatsoever. i actually prefer them to tampons due to the environmental impact anyways.

      i do still have my diva cup from before dd was born, and i might try that this cycle (just got AF yesterday so it's good timing for this thread :wink) i'll report back with my findings.

      i have also used the sea sponge as a do it yourself pessary, and it works really well for that.

      this cystocele mama say...thanks for starting this tribe!

      #123; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:25:00 GMT
    • :o

      it was a no go on the diva cup.:(

      i was able to insert it, and it was fine for a few minutes.

      then i bent down to attend to dd, and when i stood up, it PINCHED me internally.

      YEEEEOWWWCH!!

      it's possible that i just couldn't get it up high enough, i'm still a bit sensitive due to episiotomy so i'm not as comfortable as i once was with getting the diva in the right place.:shy

      perhaps the keeper might be a better choice? it's a bit softer, right? i think the stiffness of the diva is too much now that things are, ahem, rearranged.

      anyone do a comparison of diva vs. keeper with prolapse issues?

      in the meantime, it's back to the sea sponges for me. i just went swimming with dd for over an hour without a leak and i wasn't aware of the sponge at all. as you can see, i'm a big fan!! i was really hoping that the diva would work as i loved it pre-baby...

      #124; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:26:00 GMT
    • kidsperation, when you used the sea sponges as a pessary, how often do you change them? Did you sew a string onto them for easier removal? I just bought some & am trying to figure out how to use them. The one tried I tried, it was comfortable, but hard to reach to remove. Any words of wisdom would be appreciated!
      #125; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:28:00 GMT
    • I have both a diva and a keeper but only bought the diva when i was pregnant with #2 so haven't used it yet- they don't seem too different in stiffness... I wasn't able to use the keeper after #1. Had used it for years before any pregnancy, then only had one period between pregnancies so didn't try many things, just figured out that the keeper AND the tampons would hang halfway out of me... sigh... I will have to try sea sponges, though, I have NO experience with those but anything's better than pads (IMHO)!!!
      #126; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:28:00 GMT
    • i'm still a bit sensitive due to episiotomy so i'm not as comfortable as i once was

      How bad was your episiotomy?

      Have you ever applied aloe vera on it? I didn't have an ep this time but I used the aloe any ways to see if it would help. I really like it. I can't explain what it does for me... It feels fresher I guess. This was right after I did the placenta experiment. Aloe is great for recovery of any injury. I used the plant. I think getting the liquid from a health food store be fine too. If you use the plant I would break a piece off, sick it in the fridge and apply it.

      I'm so sorry your still in pain from the ep. That sucks. I had one with ds1's birth. 4th degree. Suffered that for a year! OB that diagnosed my POP at 8wks pp (child #4) said my pop is a result from the ep. and the forceps OB used for ds1. :gloomy:

      I hope you feel better:hug

      #127; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:30:00 GMT
    • I second the aloe for the epi/tear recovery... I got the gel at the health food store (actually, it was with the beverages since the purest gel I could find was the drinkable one!). I'd take a sitz bath, then gloop on the gel and relax for 10 minutes or so...then take a shower. I sometimes put a little gel on during the day, but make sure it dries before getting dressed since it can get messy. :)
      #128; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:31:00 GMT
    • kidsperation, when you used the sea sponges as a pessary, how often do you change them? Did you sew a string onto them for easier removal? I just bought some & am trying to figure out how to use them. The one tried I tried, it was comfortable, but hard to reach to remove. Any words of wisdom would be appreciated!

      i only used it during physical activity (yoga class, pilates class, power walking) to see if it made a difference in the way that i felt, so it was in maybe 2 hours max. i didn't have a problem retrieving it but i know that other mamas do sew a string or some dental floss through the sponge to make it easier to get out.

      i don't have the draggy feeling much anymore (thank goodness), only for a day or so when i ovulate and then a little bit during my period, so i only feel like i might need a pessary for support one day a month. but i've also realized that part of my self care is to take it easy when i feel that way, so if i feel like exercise at that time, i'll opt to swim instead, which is invigorating and relaxing at the same time, and no need for a pessary with that.

      How bad was your episiotomy?

      Have you ever applied aloe vera on it? I didn't have an ep this time but I used the aloe any ways to see if it would help. I really like it. I can't explain what it does for me... It feels fresher I guess. This was right after I did the placenta experiment. Aloe is great for recovery of any injury. I used the plant. I think getting the liquid from a health food store be fine too. If you use the plant I would break a piece off, sick it in the fridge and apply it.

      I'm so sorry your still in pain from the ep. That sucks. I had one with ds1's birth. 4th degree. Suffered that for a year! OB that diagnosed my POP at 8wks pp (child #4) said my pop is a result from the ep. and the forceps OB used for ds1. :gloomy:

      I hope you feel better:hug

      thanks so much for your well wishes and suggestions about aloe vera...i think the epis was a grade 3 (haven't yet reviewed birth records with midwife). i did apply some lavender essential oils when it was still healing, along with doing herbal sitzbaths. my physical therapist also did a lot of scar tissue release techniques that did make the area a lot less sensitive. the scar tissue is still forming up to 1 year postpartum, so her gentle hands-on technique was really helpful so that overall, i think i'm doing quite well with the epis scar area. it's healed really well...it's probably more psychological for me than physical...i'm just a bit tentative about that area now. :(

      :hug to everyone that had to endure the pain and recovery from an episiotomy. :gloomy:

      #129; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:32:00 GMT
    • Pigpokey, how do you feel after the surgery?

      Are you happy with the outcome? Are you symptoms improved?

      It must be hard to have to undergo multiple surgeries for this.

      I'm just editing this post now, I see you already responded.

      I was feeling better and then I feel like I had a flare up of my cystocele. I'm 10 wks PP and starting to get quite frustrated and depressed at times. I was really hoping this would be better by now..

      So I have been thinking I may need surgery, but I know that this is premature of me. The sensation of my cystocele, esp at the end of the day really brings me down.

      I did find that swimming this weekend was wonderful for me, so I'll just have to set up regular access to a pool. It feels like a great exercise for this condition.

      #130; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:33:00 GMT
    • I'm just editing this post now, I see you already responded.

      I was feeling better and then I feel like I had a flare up of my cystocele. I'm 10 wks PP and starting to get quite frustrated and depressed at times. I was really hoping this would be better by now..

      So I have been thinking I may need surgery, but I know that this is premature of me. The sensation of my cystocele, esp at the end of the day really brings me down.

      I did find that swimming this weekend was wonderful for me, so I'll just have to set up regular access to a pool. It feels like a great exercise for this condition.

      Querico, I feel this way about surgery too when I get really frustrated w/my symptoms. Try to remember that even though you are 10 weeks pp, that is still early for your body to fully heal from the birth. Keep doing all the great things you are doing to facilitate healing, rest when you need it, and try to stay positive. :hug

      #131; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:34:00 GMT
    • I keep remembering (from the old thread I think?) that it takes at least a year for the body to "settle" after birth...so organs and tissue and muscles and tendons and all the "gooey bits" aren't in their final forms for at least that long. So I'm trying not to think of anything that is going on now as "permanent". It's depressing, but I also think it helps me to think that I've got another 10 months of healing before we'll be able to say which path is going to be the best choice.

      hugs...

      #132; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:35:00 GMT
    • I keep remembering (from the old thread I think?) that it takes at least a year for the body to "settle" after birth...so organs and tissue and muscles and tendons and all the "gooey bits" aren't in their final forms for at least that long. So I'm trying not to think of anything that is going on now as "permanent". It's depressing, but I also think it helps me to think that I've got another 10 months of healing before we'll be able to say which path is going to be the best choice.

      hugs...

      I keep telling myself that too. And I've heard that in Chinese Medicine the pp period in TWO YEARS! England stated the one year ppp. They consider the vagina to be in trauma until that time. No Sh!t:exclaim

      I went to a PT yesterday, sorry I didn't post this sooner. She taught me a lot about the proper way to do Kegels. I have to lift my bum and prop them on two pillows so my organs fall to my middle. Then I'm instructed to hold for seven, release for seven. Your not suppose to do more than your body can handle or you'll weaken the muscles. Got to give them time to build. Your training for a marathon. It takes at least a yr to get into shape. About my grade 4 cycstocele, she said I may need surgery for that. But now is definitely not the time. Ppl who have surgeries tend to visit the knife every 10 yrs. That was discouraging. She sounded so confident on the phone. Told me that the worse she has ever seen was an 80y woman who was terrified of surgery. Her entire uterus was out of her body. PT got it in its place and it stayed. How am I worse than that? My cervix is up in my body! Maybe I'm just sensitive and any mention of surgery sets me off completely.

      #133; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:36:00 GMT
    • Fruitful Womb, sounds like you found a good PT. I'm glad. And that makes a lot of sense about the position to do kegals in. Gotta try that.

      I go back to urologist today for the remainder of my work up. You cannot imagine how much I am dreading this!!!!!! I already put it off once, so I've got to go. Wish me luck!

      #134; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:37:00 GMT
    • Good Luck! I hope everything goes okay. Let us know how it went.
      #135; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:38:00 GMT
    • Hi everybody. Feeling better today, physically and mentally.

      I saw a new OB/GYN today who was very reassuring.

      He said to not even think of the future or surgery right now. His feeling was that until I stop breastfeeding and menstruate again, there is no way to say what will happen. He said he has seen women with severe prolapses completely resolve after a year or so- mentioned "not even being able to find them". Again, he explained that nursing blocks the circulation of estrogen, which is vital to vaginal healing and restoration. He said that this was not a reason to stop nursing, but important to keep in mind when I feel frustrated.

      He also said that if a very thorough exam is done on all women after delivering vaginally, you could find some type of pelvic prolapse in 75% of women in the first 6 months post partum! this makes the condition seem so much more "normal". He did add that they are usually grade 1-2, and mine is a 3, but I still felt reassured.

      He doesn't want to see me back until I have stopped breastfeeding for 3 months, and then would like to take a look.

      (I am 10 wks PP now.)

      thanks for the support!

      #136; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:39:00 GMT
    • WOW!!! Thats really good news! I wish I had a doctor like him. How far are you pp? I forget. Do you have the other prolapses too? What grade are they at? This "normalizing" you gyn spoke of is really encouraging. I have(or had) a grade 3 uterine prolapse but the other prolapses are worse. I'm glad you had a better experience than most of us normally do at the doc's office.
      #137; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:40:00 GMT
    • Hi.

      I have 5 kiddos. My first was a c-sec my last two were 10lbs. 14oz. and 10lbs. 12oz. I am 5 months postpartum. I have a mild rectocele. Noticed it after my first big baby. Didn't seem to get worse after my other big baby. But I do notice things being much looser PP for a while. I swim alot and am a firm believer that it tones this region very well.

      In my experience you are not fully strong and yourself until 4 years PP. Sort of a gradual transition back. So, if you are having kiddos a year, 18 months (I did) or even 3 years apart you are still in that rebuilding phase.

      For me a strong back, strong stomach, strong legs, good nutrition, low stress and much love for this body that birthed these amazing kiddos is my health plan. I do all of my healing myself. I honestly think nursing and carrying my babe on my back help me very much to connect with what is real and get my bod strong.

      Working in the birth field I am sad to say that this is a subject not given it's due. My midwives never mentioned it and I will say some of their practices may have actually led to my issue (and I push really fast, 5-10 minutes to birth those big babies). I am dissappointed with the lack of care in this area in midwifery. My sign to change that!

      But what I always come back to is my experience with animals and the natural world and I let all ideas of perfect or "how things should be" go and focus on what is and seeing the glory in living. My self-image needs to be strong as well. Just like grey hair and wrinkles and stretchmarks. Life changes us. Birthing changes us.

      Cheers to happy pelvic health Mamas!!

      Oh, I wanted to ask how your sex lives are affected? How your partners might feel about your changed vagina? Anyone think sex as exercise might be beneficial?

      #138; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:41:00 GMT
    • Well, I had my "urodynamic" work up yesterday, and it was quite awful. I won't go into details, but suffice it to say it was embarassing and painful. I am still recovering today. But the good news is that it is nothing too serious or "life threatening". They found that I have stress urinaray incontinence, due to the uterine prolapse and overactive bladder. He offered me meds for the overactive bladder, which I refused, and surgery for the bladder, also refused. The doctor was very nice & supportive and said it is all a matter of what I am comfortable with. My next step will be to meet w/my GYN again to discuss all the results and make a plan for continued monitoring. I am going to ask her about the possibility of a pessary.

      Thanks everyone for the support around this. I am really glad we have this thread going.

      #139; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:42:00 GMT
    • hugs max...I'm sorry the news wasn't better and that the options weren't very helpful, but I'm glad there was nothing more serious found.

      And thanks everyone for the reminders that this takes time...with a toddler and newborn (and soon to be back at work with no idea of what sort of child care I'll be able to afford) it's hard for me to feel like my body hasn't "failed" me in some way. Like, if only my body were okay then everything else would be easier? I know that isn't true, but it's hard to remember when my little babe is crying, my toddler is running for the road, and I have no idea what I'm going to find when I open the fridge...it's easier to just "blame" my body I think.

      Bleh...I guess there's a big chunk of emotional healing that I need to focus on as well as the physical. And this thread is a huge help there!

      #140; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:43:00 GMT
    • I haven't posted in a while - I recently moved and my life has been very hectic. I guess I'll give a quick review of my situation - 2 weeks postpartum with my 2nd child, I called my OB in a panic because my cervix was coming out. I started PT at 5 weeks pp, now at 3.5 mos pp I feel pretty much okay. I really credit the physical therapy with helping - as well as taking it easy, not lifting (not even my toddler) and getting enough sleep.

      I am noticing that if I get run down I feel the prolapse more. And I totally relate to feeling like my body has failed me - I have so much going on that I really need to be well physically. I try to just push through - if I stop moving I could get really depressed.

      I also take homeopathic sepia when I feel worse - it also seems to help - and I loved my fembrace - it helped me get through those first few months when I felt like my insides were coming out.

      #141; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:44:00 GMT
    • I haven't posted in a while - I recently moved and my life has been very hectic. I guess I'll give a quick review of my situation - 2 weeks postpartum with my 2nd child, I called my OB in a panic because my cervix was coming out. I started PT at 5 weeks pp, now at 3.5 mos pp I feel pretty much okay. I really credit the physical therapy with helping - as well as taking it easy, not lifting (not even my toddler) and getting enough sleep.

      I am noticing that if I get run down I feel the prolapse more. And I totally relate to feeling like my body has failed me - I have so much going on that I really need to be well physically. I try to just push through - if I stop moving I could get really depressed.

      I also take homeopathic sepia when I feel worse - it also seems to help - and I loved my fembrace - it helped me get through those first few months when I felt like my insides were coming out.

      :!wback: Moves can be draining yet fun and exciting. I wish we could move back to Colorado! About the sepia... My Midwife Manual, "Hearts and Hands" suggested it. I meant to post that information but it slipped my mind. I need to get more of that stuff. It really relaxes me and helps the prolapse too.

      Oh, I wanted to ask how your sex lives are affected? How your partners might feel about your changed vagina? Anyone think sex as exercise might be beneficial?

      Zoo Loo, Welcome!! Thank you for your encouragement. We want to have another child in 4 yrs so this was especially helpful. You had big babies! You asked about our sex lives. Sex is suppose to be therapy, so I'm told. It helps push things back up. Before my diagnosis my dh says he liked it better (for some odd reason). After the diagnosis and hearing that the OB/gyn and Midwife said I look like a 60 yr old!!!!!!!!!!! He hasn't touched me since. Its been a month and a half, I believe. I'm 29 and no Grey hairs and my cervix is up most of the time. I think they were rudely harsh and have NO bedside manners. It was a marketing ploy. "If they cry, they buy". Just a doctor who was itching to do an unnecessary

      hysterectomy. I won't see him or that Midwife again!

      ~max~:hug I'm sorry things didn't go well at the docs. Were they rough with you?

      #142; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:45:00 GMT
    • Sex- my OB recommends it for muscle tone but suggested that I avoid all penetration (sexual or otherwise) for at least 6 months to allow my tear to heal "all the way". She pointed out that this still leaves plenty of options... ;) But dh and I just haven't had a chance and my tear is still pretty painful.
      #143; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:46:00 GMT
    • Fruitful Womb, do tell about the sepia!! Is it homeopathic? My trouble w/homeopathic treatments is that I am so addicted to coffee they usually don't work for me. :coffee :bag: (Having a nice big cup right now!)

      Re: the docor's appointment, they were very nice, but yes, the nurse was none to gentle inserting the cathetars. I am almost recovered today thankfully.

      Welcome Zoo Loo! In response to your sex question, I am over a year pp, so I am fully healed there. The prolapse does not seem to cause me any problems sex-wise. (One good thing at least!)

      nicoley, I definately share the "feeling the prolapse more when run down" thing. The end of the day is always my worst time. I often need to sit w/an ice pack on and sometimes take ibuprofin if I am really in pain. (My prolapse causes my PSD & VV to hurt.)

      And wombatclay, I too often feel like "everything would be ok if my body were ok." It's so hard not being able to be as active, strong & energetic as I would like to be. The other thing I worry about w/this is that I will gain weight if I cannot be as active. I am still not quite at my pre-pregnancy weight (about 8 pounds to go) and I certainly don't want to start gaining.

      #144; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:47:00 GMT
    • fruitful womb - that is just terrible what your OB said to you! both of my doctors said that prolapse was not unusual in young women and that they see it all the time.

      I did see a surgeon who spent a long time talking to me. In his opinion, surgery is a big deal and should only be considered when your quality of life is really being affected by the prolapses. It was really nice to meet a surgeon who was not pushing surgery! Luckily I feel pretty good right now, but I will not be surprised if I need surgery somewhere down the road. I'm hoping that techniques improve more as time goes on so that the surgeries will be less invasive and more successful.

      #145; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:48:00 GMT
    • fruitful womb - that is just terrible what your OB said to you! both of my doctors said that prolapse was not unusual in young women and that they see it all the time.

      I agree Fruitful Womb, very unprofessional of the doctor. Maybe your dh is worried that he will hurt you? I know mine had some concerns about that. Have you been able to talk to him about it?

      #146; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:49:00 GMT
    • Fruitful Womb, do tell about the sepia!! Is it homeopathic? My trouble w/homeopathic treatments is that I am so addicted to coffee they usually don't work for me. :coffee :bag: (Having a nice big cup right now!)

      Yes, its homeopathic. I'd quote exactly what the book says but I'm not at my house right now. When I get home tonight I'll share that with you:wink

      Does coffee surpress the effectiveness of homeopathic remedies. (The spell check is disabled on this computer. aaahhh!)

      Maybe your dh is worried that he will hurt you?

      Thats what he said. He is afraid he'll hurt me. I believe him. Its just hard not to think he is rejecting me because of this statement the dr. made. Sex doesn't hurt. It will get dry sometimes and thats not fun. But as far as my prolapse, it doesn't hurt. I don't feel any sensation down there during intercourse. I know, TMI, sorry. Maybe its apart of the prolapse or stress or the nerves are shot. :shrug The friction is less since he has beed restoring foreskin and that helps. TMI:o

      #147; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:50:00 GMT
    • Does coffee surpress the effectiveness of homeopathic remedies.

      Coffee and mint both "counteract" homeopathic treatments. I'd usually remember to wait on the coffee but I'd always forget and brush my teeth too soon! :lol

      Arnica is a good treatment for healing tissue, but it was tough to be caffiene and mint free!

      I hope you and your dh find a good balance soon...maybe he would be more comfortable with something other than penetration for a while? Especially if your dh knows you aren't getting a lot out of it (and he's worried about hurting you)?

      #148; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:51:00 GMT
    • Very interesting post - thank you! I glanced at The Whole Woman website and it looks like it has a lot of good info, so thanks for that too.

      I'm not sure if I have POP or am just experiencing normal post-birth changes. When pregnant with DS #1, I was religious aobut my Kegels and thought I was safe from this sort of thing, but ever since his birth I've felt that things just aren't right "down there". Eventhough I didn't tear, it took me a long time to recover. Eventhough he's now 2, I still feel like my vagina is bulging out and things are way too relaxed. I've tried to tell myself that I just need to get back to doing Kegels on a regular basis, but I can't help but worry that there's more to it than that. I'm now pregnant with baby #2 and have lots of problems, including a lovely labial vericose vein, and the feeling that my vagina is going to just fall off and take my insides with it. Thankfully my NP recommended a V2 supporter and that has made a world of difference in combatting the pressue. But, all of that also makes me worry that there is something more to what I'm feeling than just normal untoned muscle.

      My real question is, how are you diagnosed with POP? Is it something that would have automatically been found in my post partum/pregnancy checks, or is it something I need to be more pro-active about?

      I'd been planning on taking up pilates as soon as I could after this baby comes, since my stomach muscles stayed prety far separated after having my son, but now I'll make sure to get this POP stuff figured out before proceeding with that!

      #149; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:52:00 GMT
    • ASC, I have felt the exact same way (vagina bulging, just gonna fall right out) - my last baby is now a year old and it's much worse than after the first. As for Pilates, that was going to be my 'savior' too, because I also have abdominal separation, and everything I've been reading says to avoid Pilates mat routines, BOTH for POP and abdominal separation. So I'm floundering, feeling like there's nothing I can DO (I want to be active SO BADLY), and hoping that I can things somewhat back in shape eventually...

      has anyone here used the book or video from Whole Woman? Or the device? I'm thinking about ordering it but don't know quite what I'll be getting. How might Physical Therapy differ from the stuff on her video? I'm thinking about trying to get referred for PT but don't have an OB here and don't know where to start. I also don't have anyone to care for the kiddos while doing PT, so if the Whole Woman stuff is similar it would be more convenient to be able to do it at home.

      thanks...

      #150; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:53:00 GMT
    • debsdancer, I like the video a lot. I try to do it daily. It only takes about 15 minutes and really focuses on all the muscles & ligaments associated w/prolapse. The video itself also has a lot of info in it, generally a summary of the book. The exercises in the book are ballet based, take about 45 minutes I believe, and IMO are a bit trickier to follow using the book as a guide - although the book does give good descriptions & pictures. I am not sure what device you are referring to? She recommends a wooden batton for the video exercises, but I don't think it is really necessary. The other thing I am going to look into is the "Lose Your Mummy Tummy" exercise video. The author of the book is a PT and seems to really focus on healing abdominal separation and stregthening the pelvic floor. It seems like it would be a good resourse for us prolapse mamas.

      ASC, I was dx. w/POP by my GYN one year pp. I went to her bc I was having stress incontinence. It was not dx. or even mentioned at my 6 pp week check up. I don't know if I had it then, or if I was just healing from the birth. I knew throughout my pregnancy though that something was wrong w/my body and worried if I would be able to fully heal after the birth.

      HTH.

      #151; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:54:00 GMT
    • My real question is, how are you diagnosed with POP? Is it something that would have automatically been found in my post partum/pregnancy checks, or is it something I need to be more pro-active about?

      Different doctors have their preferences for dxing their patients. It depends on who you go to. I went two different docs. One had me bare down. This same doctor (warning graphic details ahead) inserted his finger into the rectum and forced tissue out of my vagina. That really hurt!!! He said, "yep, a grade 3 rectocele!). I didn't have any problems with a rectocele until after he hurt me:irked:

      The 2nd doctor inserted a q tip in my urethra. He had me cough. The q tip is suppose to swing at a certain angle. 40 degrees is normal. Mine was 90 degrees! Then he would palpate my organs. Nothing painful. And no bearing down.

      I hope I answered your question.

      #152; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:55:00 GMT
    • I have both of Tulper's books..."lose the mummy tummy" and "maternal fitness" and I love them. The mummy tummy book focuses on healing/repairing diastasis. The maternal fitness one has many of the same exercises but also has stuff specifically for use during pregnancy/birth. Both books are on amazon, and there is a "cheat sheet" of her basic ideas at http://www.maternalfitness.com/baks_basics.pdf

      I was dx when I had my 4th degree tear after shoulder dystocia...my OB checked everything as she was putting me back together!

      #153; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:56:00 GMT
    • Someting I have been thinking about is the babymoon. The actual rest period, lying-in with baby for a full 6 weeks. I know how hard that is with our modern society, distant relatives (both physically and emotionally), multiple children, moms back to work soon PP...the list goes on. BUT this is fundamental to propper physical healing. And I can't help but draw a correlation between our lack of propper after-care (in some Euro countries the mom has massages at her home, nursing/baby help, house help standard, covered by the health care system-they really value families!) and pelvic organ prolapse, postpartum depression and low breastfeeding rates.

      We all know a well taken care of mom is a mom that is able to take good care of her babe.

      #154; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:57:00 GMT
    • Zoo Loo, I very much agree. I have a good friend who is Vietnamese and they have the 40 days in bed and since she is quite americanized she and her husband fought the relatives and said screw it... they talk about how ridiculous it is and how it would drive a woman crazy... and I just wish I'd had the opportunity! I think my POP is directly related to a severe cough I developed about 2 weeks PP, which lasted and lasted and was a very violent cough... I was feeling so *good* before that and then BLAM my guts were falling out. I'm sure it didn't help the diastasis either. YUCKO. ah well.
      #155; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:58:00 GMT
    • Zoo Loo, I very much agree. I have a good friend who is Vietnamese and they have the 40 days in bed and since she is quite americanized she and her husband fought the relatives and said screw it... they talk about how ridiculous it is and how it would drive a woman crazy... and I just wish I'd had the opportunity! I think my POP is directly related to a severe cough I developed about 2 weeks PP, which lasted and lasted and was a very violent cough... I was feeling so *good* before that and then BLAM my guts were falling out. I'm sure it didn't help the diastasis either. YUCKO. ah well.

      I totally agree w/you. I sooooooo wanted/needed more time in bed to recuperate. With 4 kids, that just wasn't happening. I rested when I could, but do not think I got nearly enough.

      It's funny that you should mention the cough - that is exactly what set mine off too. By 2-3 months pp I felt pretty well, no more stress incontinence. Then about 8 months later I got a hacking cough and it all came back worse than ever. Ahhh, the world of POP........

      #156; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:59:00 GMT
    • Someting I have been thinking about is the babymoon. The actual rest period, lying-in with baby for a full 6 weeks. I know how hard that is with our modern society, distant relatives (both physically and emotionally), multiple children, moms back to work soon PP...the list goes on. BUT this is fundamental to propper physical healing. And I can't help but draw a correlation between our lack of propper after-care (in some Euro countries the mom has massages at her home, nursing/baby help, house help standard, covered by the health care system-they really value families!) and pelvic organ prolapse, postpartum depression and low breastfeeding rates.

      We all know a well taken care of mom is a mom that is able to take good care of her babe.

      You've made an excellent point. We should lobby our insurance companies for them to cover pp recovery up to at least 6 weeks. Nannies, housekeeper, he!! even a personal chef would be wonderful!!! If we received that kind of pp care: POP would be very rare!

      debsdancer Smokers who have never had babies experience POP because their coughing so hard all the time. Same with sneezing, I use to hold my sneezes in b/c I didn't want to spray germs everywhere. PT says its harmful to do that. The force of a sneeze is equivalent to 70 mph wind. You hold that in, it'll blow your insides out!

      My POP didn't get really bad until 7wks pp when I had a UTI. The burn from peeing sent my body into an involuntary pushing mode. I could not control it. I was literally pushing my bladder out of my body! I did get a anti-spazmotic drug which calmed down the uncontrollable urge to bare down. That was the breaking point for me.:gloomy:

      #157; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:00:00 GMT
    • I have the Interstitial Cystitis and the vaginal/rectum cystocele. Years ago my mom used Sepia homeopathics, and the next Dr visit, the OB swore she had surgery since her uterus have moved up so much. I haven't tried that yet. I practice Pelvic floor kegels and certin special tummy exercises that don't push out the uterus, like regular crunches can. Caffine makes it so much worse for me, but I need :coffee: in the morning.

      http://evenbetternow.com/ This explains the book for interstitial cystitis. This book was found by my mom an HHP, and seemed very cool.

      #158; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:01:00 GMT
    • WOW, thanks for the link! It has so much great info:thumb

      I have IC and I'm so glad to have found this link!!!

      Its great to hear the Sepia worked for your mother. My cervix has gone way up too and I've taked sepia. Maybe its the thing that helped. Glad to hear someone else had the same luck. Birth&Bunnies:D Its great to meet you!

      #159; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:02:00 GMT
    • Hi everybody. Feeling better today, physically and mentally.

      I saw a new OB/GYN today who was very reassuring.

      He said to not even think of the future or surgery right now. His feeling was that until I stop breastfeeding and menstruate again, there is no way to say what will happen. He said he has seen women with severe prolapses completely resolve after a year or so- mentioned "not even being able to find them". Again, he explained that nursing blocks the circulation of estrogen, which is vital to vaginal healing and restoration. He said that this was not a reason to stop nursing, but important to keep in mind when I feel frustrated.

      He also said that if a very thorough exam is done on all women after delivering vaginally, you could find some type of pelvic prolapse in 75% of women in the first 6 months post partum! this makes the condition seem so much more "normal". He did add that they are usually grade 1-2, and mine is a 3, but I still felt reassured.

      He doesn't want to see me back until I have stopped breastfeeding for 3 months, and then would like to take a look.

      (I am 10 wks PP now.)

      thanks for the support!

      Hello! I'm also part of the prolapse clan. I am 7 months pp. I have a grade 1 uterine prolapse and sometimes I feel "normal," but like other pp's, sometimes it bothers me and gives me that low tampon feeling in my vagina. I'm hoping that time will still help me heal.

      I think I got my prolapse when I was pushing during birth. I only pushed for about an hour, but for some reason, in between pushing, I was holding (flexing) my kegal muscles because I didn't want to lose the progress I'd made and have the baby come back inside (similar to pushing out a BM that takes some effort... sorry). At the time, I thought, "I'm the strongest lady ever - able to focus, push and then keep holding in between!" In hindsight, not a good idea. Also, I was so amazed by how awesome and not tired I felt after giving birth, that on day two, I was up making homemade vegetable soup and was probably on my feet longer than I should be. I agree with what pp's have said - midwives need to warn about this more. You hear, "Take it easy," but not, "...because if you don't, your cervix might fall out of your body." I noticed my prolapse about a week after giving birth. My cervix was poking out of my vagina just a tiny bit and I kept thinking it was a clot that needed to come out. (this might be TMI...) I even tugged at it a little bit because I thought I could help the "clot" out, but then I realized it looked like real tissue.

      My midwife referred me to a great PT, who I saw for about a month, but aside from being an hour away, it was really expensive too and my insurance didn't cover it (isn't insurance great?). I went enough times to get some good take home exercises out of it, but I wish I could've kept up with it. We did a lot of pilates work on a reformed and mostly mat work. I have not kept up with the exercises at home because at the end of a long, busy day, the last thing I want to do is pelvic floor exercises! But, since it's been bugging me a bit more the past few days, I need to make it a priority.

      Like other posters, I feel like my body is a wreck. I also have a nagging little hemorhhoid and even though I'm back at my pre-pregnancy weight, my lower abdomen feels stretched out (go figure). After I eat, it looks like I have a mini pregnant belly. I'm thinking that time and doing more abdominal exercises will help that. Again, I need to to make it a priority.

      It's depressing to think that my body's failing me. And, it makes me a little nervous for having another baby. What kinds of risks will it put me at? What if my uterus DOES actually come out of my body while I'm pregnant? Also, it's no fun to be walking around with things feeling like they're hanging out of your vagina and anus.

      I quoted the above post because I thought it was very helpful. I can't imagine that every woman doesn't experience prolapse of some degree after labor. When I first got pregnant, my midwife told me that I had a really low cervix, so I also think that perhaps if I had a "normal" cervix, I might not even feel this prolapse.

      And, it seems so strange that breastfeeding inhibits our body's ability to heal itself after birth when breastfeeding is what nature intended us to do... interesting. I usually feel like nature is so smart, but that one just doesn't make sense to me. Maybe the reason we need everything to be loosey goosey while breastfeeding it to allow our nipples to be yanked on without hurting! :lol

      Sorry this is so long - thanks for this wonderful thread. It's good to know I'm not alone. :o

      BTW - can someone explain a cystocele and a rectocele to me?

      #160; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:03:00 GMT
    • You know happy2bamama, I tell pushing mamas that are concerned about not making progress when they are pushing and the baby is coming down during and going up after/between contraction/pushing efforts that the baby is "paving the way". New ground, making a route, loosening things up as you will. Perfectly natural, very common and always amazing to witness.

      And yes, midwives do need to be talking more straight talk. No one benefits from a sugar coated approach. Women need the truth.

      And my personal feelings are that we need more family. More of the grandmothers babying the mamas while they become mothers. It really strikes a cord in our society. We are birthing and rearing offspring to become independant. We value that so much in the industrialized world. We need to be more community oriented to ensure the health and well being off our people, our mamas, our babies and our families. I also advocate for fathers-we need to attach to our kids.

      But I digress...:wink

      #161; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:04:00 GMT
    • how is this thread here right when I need it?
      #162; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:05:00 GMT
    • BTW - can someone explain a cystocele and a rectocele to me?

      Well, google will give you gobs but basically...

      A cystocele is a bladder prolapse (with or without incontenance) and a rectocele is a rectal prolapse (may or may not protrude from the anus).

      #163; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:06:00 GMT
    • A cystocele is when the bladder bulges into the vagina, a rectocele is when the rectum bulges into the vagina.

      Someone above asked about diagnosis. Unless you specifically complain of symptoms, it is unlikely that you will be diagnosed with prolapse in a routine exam for a couple of reasons. First, a lot of women have some degree of prolapse but are asymptomatic. Also, while lying down, most prolapses are not as evident - they are much easier to diagnose during a standing exam. My doctors never checked my vaginal strength postpartum - I think it is really irresponsible.

      You can self-diagnose pretty easily. While standing, do a vaginal exam. Your vagina should be pretty much a straight shot to your cervix. If your cervix is low, or you feel any bulges in the way, you might be prolapsed.

      #164; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:07:00 GMT
    • It's in the TMI category, BUT when I have to go #2, I stick my clean thumb into my vagina to plop the BM out :spitdrink Works like a charm, if I don't do that it really hard to empty it all out since the angle is all wrong.
      #165; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:08:00 GMT
    • It's in the TMI category, BUT when I have to go #2, I stick my clean thumb into my vagina to plop the BM out :spitdrink Works like a charm, if I don't do that it really hard to empty it all out since the angle is all wrong.

      Wow! A woman's gotta do what a woman's gotta do.

      I started taking Sepia today, so I'll let you guys know if I feel a difference. I also started kegeling more too. But I have to be careful because I've been known to kegel a lot and then blow out my pelvic floor muscles which actually makes my prolapse feel worse. When I want to do something, I want to do it, so I have to make sure to go slow with the kegels.

      #166; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:09:00 GMT
    • It's in the TMI category, BUT when I have to go #2, I stick my clean thumb into my vagina to plop the BM out :spitdrink Works like a charm, if I don't do that it really hard to empty it all out since the angle is all wrong.

      I believe the medical term for that (and it's more common than you'd think) is "splinting". It's one of the questions they ask when they are trying to determine if a prolapse interfers with your quality of life - "do you have to 'splint' to evacuate your bowels?" Can I snicker at how prissy that sounds?

      #167; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:10:00 GMT
    • Last year my pelvic exam showed my uterus was not prolapsed. However, the cystocele in which ever version I specifically have, is why I think the anus isn't lined up correctly for a normal BM. I also had a lot of BM trouble as a little kid and I think my colon/anal area is streched out from years of larger than average BMs. My maternal history has a pattern of prolapse, but my mom has worked on her self with homeopathics and such so I was more aware to avoid certain exasterbasting things i.e. stomach crunches. I suck in for stomach exercises and then I lay on my back, legs together and slowly move my legs back and forth using my stomach muscles, and avoiding the pushing out feeling from crunches. And kegels of course.
      #168; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:11:00 GMT
    • "[QUOTE=Zoo Loo Naturals;8813559]Someting I have been thinking about is the babymoon. The actual rest period, lying-in with baby for a full 6 weeks. I know how hard that is with our modern society, distant relatives (both physically and emotionally), multiple children, moms back to work soon PP...the list goes on. BUT this is fundamental to propper physical healing. And I can't help but draw a correlation between our lack of propper after-care (in some Euro countries the mom has massages at her home, nursing/baby help, house help standard, covered by the health care system-they really value families!) and pelvic organ prolapse, postpartum depression and low breastfeeding rates."

      I so wish I had a serious rest period.

      I thought i was superwoman after achieving my much desired VBAC. I felt like after having birthed my babe after a 26 hour labor I could do anything, so I got out there at the end of the first week and was walking to central park, meeting people joyfully, but forgot to let myself rest. At the 3 wk point my adrenaline and my body crashed, and I realized something wasn't right. That is when I discovered my cystocele,(grade 3) and my image of my powerful self was squashed.

      There is no telling if I made it worse by not resting, but I don't think it helped. I'm really trying to listen to my body now and be patient and ask for help when I need it. I struggle with discomfort every day. Afternoons into evenings are when it falls lower and my symptoms are worse. I had some improvement, and now seem to have taken a step backwards. But it seems that this is nature of what we are dealing with.

      Welcome to all of the new women who have signed on here.:hola:

      #169; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:12:00 GMT
    • my lower abdomen feels stretched out (go figure). After I eat, it looks like I have a mini pregnant belly. I'm thinking that time and doing more abdominal exercises will help that.

      I absolutely do NOT know what I'm talking about, but the reading I've done has indicated that traditional abdominal exercises will not help if what you have is diastasis- meaning, the two halves of the external abdominal wall are actually separated. IF that is the case for you, be careful, because a lot of Pilates mat work (which you mentioned from PT) can make the abdominal separation worse.

      Just wanted to throw in a word of caution since I, queen of ab work, did my Pilates faithfully for several months before I researched and learned that I was not helping myself at all...:irked: not to mention the pressure it can put on the pelvic floor, therefore making the prolapse worse, too. :(

      #170; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:13:00 GMT
    • I absolutely do NOT know what I'm talking about, but the reading I've done has indicated that traditional abdominal exercises will not help if what you have is diastasis- meaning, the two halves of the external abdominal wall are actually separated. IF that is the case for you, be careful, because a lot of Pilates mat work (which you mentioned from PT) can make the abdominal separation worse.

      Just wanted to throw in a word of caution since I, queen of ab work, did my Pilates faithfully for several months before I researched and learned that I was not helping myself at all...:irked: not to mention the pressure it can put on the pelvic floor, therefore making the prolapse worse, too. :(

      Thanks for the post! When I met with my PT to work on my prolapse, she checked my abdomen and said everything felt fine and we actually did some ab work. But, even so, we were careful to do things other than crunches and to position me in a way that didn't do damage to my pelvic floor. I too did a ton of ab work about a month after DS was born and go figure, that's when I started feeling my prolapse more. I wish I had known then too that it would make things worse. Thanks for looking out for me though! :wink

      #171; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:14:00 GMT
    • I absolutely do NOT know what I'm talking about, but the reading I've done has indicated that traditional abdominal exercises will not help if what you have is diastasis- meaning, the two halves of the external abdominal wall are actually separated. IF that is the case for you, be careful, because a lot of Pilates mat work (which you mentioned from PT) can make the abdominal separation worse.

      Just wanted to throw in a word of caution since I, queen of ab work, did my Pilates faithfully for several months before I researched and learned that I was not helping myself at all...:irked: not to mention the pressure it can put on the pelvic floor, therefore making the prolapse worse, too. :(

      as a PT (and a woman with a cystocele), i can say that you are totally correct. pilates work on the apparati, including the reformer and magic chair, can do absolute wonders for prolapse. pilates mat work, however, is really contraindicated because it places our bodies in a vulnerable alignment. it's a bummer because most gyms offer pilates mat programs as part of their group exercise schedules, but to do reformer work you basically need to take private sessions or work with a therapist one on one, which can end up to be pretty pricey. i feel SO fortunate that my gym offers a pilates 'allegro' class, which is a group reformer class done on portable reformers. it still costs extra (whereas the mat classes are part of membership), but the $15 per session is totally worth it to keep up a safe and effective rehab program for abdominals and pelvic floor.

      "[quote=Zoo Loo Naturals;8813559]Someting I have been thinking about is the babymoon. The actual rest period, lying-in with baby for a full 6 weeks. I know how hard that is with our modern society, distant relatives (both physically and emotionally), multiple children, moms back to work soon PP...the list goes on. BUT this is fundamental to propper physical healing. And I can't help but draw a correlation between our lack of propper after-care (in some Euro countries the mom has massages at her home, nursing/baby help, house help standard, covered by the health care system-they really value families!) and pelvic organ prolapse, postpartum depression and low breastfeeding rates."

      I so wish I had a serious rest period.

      I thought i was superwoman after achieving my much desired VBAC. I felt like after having birthed my babe after a 26 hour labor I could do anything, so I got out there at the end of the first week and was walking to central park, meeting people joyfully, but forgot to let myself rest. At the 3 wk point my adrenaline and my body crashed, and I realized something wasn't right. That is when I discovered my cystocele,(grade 3) and my image of my powerful self was squashed.

      There is no telling if I made it worse by not resting, but I don't think it helped. I'm really trying to listen to my body now and be patient and ask for help when I need it. I struggle with discomfort every day. Afternoons into evenings are when it falls lower and my symptoms are worse. I had some improvement, and now seem to have taken a step backwards. But it seems that this is nature of what we are dealing with.

      Welcome to all of the new women who have signed on here.:hola:

      i absolutely believe that the superwoman birth culture here in the US is very detrimental to women's health. women brag about being out and about and active a day or two after birth, and although i'm glad that some women feel so great after birth, it is one of the WORST things you can do to yourself. in the ayurvedic system of medicine, they have a concept of "40 days for 40 years", which is that the first 40 days after giving birth are an investment towards the next 40 years of a woman's life. makes total sense, and it would be interesting to see the numbers of POP in countries/cultures that honor the postpartum period as a time when women need to rest and recuperate vs. those parts of the world where being a "superwoman" as you describe it is seen as a sign of strength.

      i pushed for 5 hours, half the time on my back :gloomy:, and i basically blew out my entire pelvic floor. i was in so much pain after giving birth to dd, but the day after we got home, i insisted on taking a walk. i probably walked 200 yards or so and it totally wiped me out, and when my midwife checked in with me later that day, she told me that i needed to be very careful and to stay 'down' for a while longer, which was really hard for me to hear and do. in retrospect, i was insanely stupid for being as active as i was (and it wasn't much, but was certainly enough to make my bladder fall out of my body), and i try to spread the word as much as possible for women to get help around the house and take it easy after birth. people just don't talk about POP and most of the time when i've mentioned it to pregnant women, they've never even heard of it before.

      that's got to change.

      #172; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:15:00 GMT
    • I have a doctor's appointment Friday for a diagnosis, this thread is giving me hope.
      #173; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:16:00 GMT
    • I have a doctor's appointment Friday for a diagnosis, this thread is giving me hope.

      :hug

      there is SO much hope. stay strong, mama.

      #174; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:17:00 GMT
    • hanno

      I have a doctor's appointment Friday for a diagnosis, this thread is giving me hope.

      Good luck! :thumb Let us know how it goes. :) We're here for you! If you get this message before you go. Please tell the doctor NOT to insert his finger into your rectum and streach the tissue out of the vagina. This will HURT! And it will absolutely make things worse. Sorry for the TMI. This happened to me and I wish I could sue his A.pregnancy.itags.org..pregnancy.itags.org.!!! My bottom is hanging out of my vagina because of this and I NEVER had a problem with a rectocle before he did what he did to me. So, please be careful. Maybe all they'll do is a Q-tip method dx. Another Doctor, (second opinion) used the Q-tip method. They insert it in the urethra and have you cough. If it deflects pass a 40 degree angle that should say something.

      :hug

      #175; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:18:00 GMT
    • Good luck hanno! Let us know how it goes.

      Birth culture- I'm afraid the modern "natural birth" movement plays into this as well. Women want to demonstrate that birth is natural, that it's not something the med pros need to interfere with, that women are made to birth. So hours or even minutes after birth women try to be up and about to "prove" this (ignoring or "forgetting" the rest element that surrounded natural birth for hundreds of generations). Birth Centers send mama home after a few hours, hospitals keep you for 2 days tops, and in a homebirth the attendants leave after a few hours. We don't have the support system in place to allow a mama a classic "lying in" and we have the mind set that a "lying in" period isn't necessary since birth is "natural" and "taking a break" would imply something was wrong.

      Not that there is an easy fix, but sometimes I worry about mamas in the natural birth community who site examples of women who are working, pause to have their babe, and go back to work in order to support natural birth. Yes, this has and does happen, but it's not the ideal and it's certainly not appropriate for a woman who isn't in peak shape, who isn't birthing in her teens or early twenties, and who will probably live into her 90s. It makes me wonder sometimes...I'm 100% in favor of natural birth and belive passionately in birth and in women's abilities, but sometimes I wonder if natural birth without the recovery support system is doing more harm then good for women's health. :( Again, no quick fixes or easy answers, just another example of the complex disfunction of modern times.

      #176; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:19:00 GMT
    • Birth culture- I'm afraid the modern "natural birth" movement plays into this as well. Women want to demonstrate that birth is natural, that it's not something the med pros need to interfere with, that women are made to birth. So hours or even minutes after birth women try to be up and about to "prove" this (ignoring or "forgetting" the rest element that surrounded natural birth for hundreds of generations). Birth Centers send mama home after a few hours, hospitals keep you for 2 days tops, and in a homebirth the attendants leave after a few hours. We don't have the support system in place to allow a mama a classic "lying in" and we have the mind set that a "lying in" period isn't necessary since birth is "natural" and "taking a break" would imply something was wrong.

      I couldn't agree with you more. This is exactly how I felt after DS's birth. I felt like superwoman because I wasn't all groggy and drugged out and so I felt like life could go back to "normal." I don't blame anyone else for me doing too much after the birth, but it would've been nice if my midwives would've really hit it home as to why taking it easy is so important. And yes, there was a part of me that felt that if I didn't bounce back quickly that all the nay-sayers would be like, "If natural birth is so good, why isn't she up and moving shortly after?" But, of course, what they say really DOES NOT MATTER - having a healthy pelvic floor matters! Next time I birth, I will definitely rest a lot more in the beginning.

      Also, to the pp who talked about reformer classes - yes, thank you for reminding me of that. I have been meaning to sign up for one, but I had forgotten about it until you mentioned it.

      Thanks and :grouphug to all!

      #177; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:20:00 GMT
    • Thank you all for the support. It means so much! I am scared because I really want one more bio baby.

      While I was pregnant I asked both the o/b, the o/b's nurse and my midwife what was happening that I could now 'see' parts of me that I couldn't see before when I looked in the mirror. They all gave me the same basic answer: you're body goes through changes when you become a mama and things move down and it's okay, with a little laugh that sounded (in each) like I was being patted for being a naive new mom. When I was having the baby it was all great, I didn't push, the baby/my body did and he came out without any pain, just too fast for what I was emotionally prepared for so I breathed out some of the contractions but I gave that up soon enough. The placenta still wasn't out after an hour and a half so the midwives gave me tinctures and had me try on the toilet and tried tugging on the cord and it wasn't coming out and the midwife pretty much threatened hospital or pitocin (which I did not want) plus I just wanted my baby back in my arms so I pushed it with all my might until it came out. I lost a lot of blood and I only remember little bits of the next few days. I have a pretty good idea that this really hurt me and I know that none of it was necessary.

      Now it's so low sometimes it's coming out. Kegels sitting, standing or laying seem to make it worse but if I do kegels with my hips up high, I can get it back up there and stay up until I exert again. Going for a long walk or lifting my cast iron pot'll put me right back to square one.

      I was also wondering- does surgery always mean no more children?

      #178; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:21:00 GMT
    • I did not have an answer to the horseback riding question! I'm so glad threadbey did. It makes a lot of sense too...

      I do take the sepia. I got this advise from my "Hearts & Hands, A Midwife's Guide". I buy the strongest potency available at Whole Foods. The book suggest 200C. Can't find 200C at any health store but you can order it online. The 30C works fine for me anyways. I can't explain why it works since the store guide to homeopathic remedies say its for moods, but it seems to work.

      Sepia does work for prolapse. What you're reading about moods is only one component of the whole remedy. Each remedy has a profile that involves a whole body description, and multiple symptoms that you should make overall or more so than another.

      Uses for sepia

      * women's problems related to menstruation

      * costipation, particularly as a result of pregnancy or menstruation

      * dandruff, particularly when associated with "pigmented patches"

      * delayed menstruation, particularly if yeast infections are a problem

      * problems associated with menopause, especially menstrual flooding and feeling that the womb will "drop out"

      * amenorrhea when accompanied by depression and general aches and pains

      * menorrhagia when accompanied by dragging pain in the lower abdomen, backache, depression, and irritability

      * miscarriage when accompanied by dragging pains and irritability

      * non-malignant swellings and tumors of the uterus (such as fibroids), again, when accompanied by the dragging pains and emotional make-up outlined above

      * bedwetting in children when it occurs soon after falling asleep, and involuntary passing of urine on sneezing or coughing

      * irritability, especially when connected with menstruation

      * morning sickness, especially where cravings are worse in the morning and there is a craving for vinegar or pickles

      * in cases of thrush or candidiasis

      * young mothers who are having difficulty developing maternal feelings

      * babies who dislike being held

      * depression that is accompanied by irritability and an exaggerated sense of responsibility

      * infertility, particularly when associated with loss of libido, exhaustion, and apathy

      #179; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:24:00 GMT
    • I'll have to see if I can find some sepia.

      I'm getting frustrated. I can feel everything bulging right at the vaginal opening (sitting is uncomfy) and if I do kegels I can actually feel everything pull up and in...I tried last night and if I put my finger right at the vaginal opening and kegel the bulge actually vanishes within about 30-40 kegels. After 100 kegels the vaginal area feels almost normal.

      But within a minute of stopping the kegels everything is right back down again.

      So what to do? Keep kegelong and hope that eventually the muscle will hold everything in place even when not actively tightening it? Try something else? Live life in a handstand? Grrrrrrr... it's so frustrating since the kegels obviously "work" but then everything just slides right back!

      (and yeah, I'm not going to stop kegeling...it's just frustrating)

      #180; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:25:00 GMT
    • wombatclay, if you can, try and see a physical therapist. i kegeled like a madwoman, only to find out that i was doing them wrong. my pt also said not to do more than 50-60 a day. once i was doing them correctly it still took 6-8 weeks before i saw improvement.

      you could also look into estrogen therapy. there are bio-identical creams - i think made from yams - if you are not comfortable with synthetics. i used estrace for a little while.

      i hope you feel better soon.

      #181; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:26:00 GMT
    • If anyone lives in Southern California, I know of an AMAZING physical therapist that specializes in prolapses. :wink
      #182; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:27:00 GMT
    • I am definately going to get some Sepia too! Thank you for the info. How often do you take it?

      Wombatclay, I am so w/you on the frustration this brings. I had been feeling better for a while, feeling like I was truly healing, then life got crazy on me (lots of stress) and everything seemed to regress.

      The balms that Christine is selling on WholeWoman.com look interesting. I ordered some this weekend.

      Does anyone have varicose veins from uterine prolapse? I had them during my pregnancy, and now they have returned w/the prolapse. And they are getting worse. It seems like my uterus is putting pressure on whatever the source of the veins is (just on one leg). I am afraid of how bad they may actually get. It also puts pressure on my pubic bone so my PSD can be quite painful. If anyone has any insights or suggestions I would be so grateful!

      #183; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:29:00 GMT
    • Interesting.... when my bladder is REALLY full everything feels normal. Once I empty it sags down again. Anyone else? And any idea why?
      #184; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:30:00 GMT
    • I have decided that if I make myself urinate more often than I feel the need, I have less trouble with the prolapse AND I pee myself less... sigh... but whatever works.
      #185; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:31:00 GMT
    • kiddoson- I wonder...maybe the feeling of fullness and pressure from a really full bladder sort of "tricks" your body? Hmmmm. That doesn't sound right, let me see if I can explain...

      Your body is "used" to the feeling of fullness and "swelling" caused by a full bladder. It interprets that sensation as totally normal for a really full bladder. So when your bladder is empty your body says "Hey! I still feel like things are bulging and full but there's no full bladder! Something is funky!" but when your bladder is full it sort of overrides this message?

      I know that at first my prolapse wasn't as bothersome as the tear...my body kept shouting that something was wrong but it was focused on the pain from the tear. As the tear heals and the pain becomes less and less my body notices the sensations from the prolapse more and more. So although my prolapse hasn't actually gotten worse (in fact it seems to be gradually getting better) it FEELS worse since my body is paying more attention to it.

      If that makes sense?

      #186; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:32:00 GMT
    • I just joined a gym today - gotta shed these last 10 pounds! I have been putting regular exercise off, other than walking, bc I was afraid it might worsen my prolapses. But I am over that now & am really feeling the need to make my body strong again, and not let the prolapse run my life. I know crunches & pilates are not supposed to be helpful, any other things I should avoid or be careful with? I'd like to do some nautilus, yoga, & body sculpting classes. TIA.
      #187; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:33:00 GMT
    • I just joined a gym today - gotta shed these last 10 pounds! I have been putting regular exercise off, other than walking, bc I was afraid it might worsen my prolapses. But I am over that now & am really feeling the need to make my body strong again, and not let the prolapse run my life. I know crunches & pilates are not supposed to be helpful, any other things I should avoid or be careful with? I'd like to do some nautilus, yoga, & body sculpting classes. TIA.

      Pilates are good, if you can do it with the reformer. My PT said to watch out for yoga, since poses are held for a period of time - if they are the wrong kind they can put too much pressure on the pelvic floor. She said inversion poses are really good though :).

      Personally, I go for low impact - swimming, cycling, walking. But I've done that my whole life - big boobs so I hate anything that makes me bounce too much.

      #188; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:34:00 GMT
    • Pilates are good, if you can do it with the reformer. My PT said to watch out for yoga, since poses are held for a period of time - if they are the wrong kind they can put too much pressure on the pelvic floor. She said inversion poses are really good though :).

      Personally, I go for low impact - swimming, cycling, walking. But I've done that my whole life - big boobs so I hate anything that makes me bounce too much.

      Haha I'm, right with you there!

      #189; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:35:00 GMT
    • So I bought some Sepia 200c. I am an inexperienced homeopathic remedy user. Any advice would be appreciated! For instance, do you take it only when you are feeling symptoms, or preventitively? how often? how much? continuously or with "breaks?" Anything else I don't know to ask?

      Thank you!

      #190; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:36:00 GMT
    • DOSAGE GUIDELINES:

      Acute: When symptoms are immediate or severe, take under tongue 10-15 drops, or as dosage is listed, every 15 minutes not to exceed 3 hours total.

      Subacute: When symptoms improve or are mild to moderate, take under tongue 10-15 drops, or as dosage is listed, every hour not to exceed 8 hours total.

      Chronic: When symptoms last longer than 48 to 72 hours, take under tongue 10-15 drops as listed on the bottle.

      Preventative: For maintenance of occasional symptoms or for a tendency toward the condition, take 10-15 drops once weekly or monthly as needed.

      GENERAL RULES FOR TAKING REMEDIES:

      Avoid Mint and Camphor as some remedies may be rendered less- or in-active.

      Do not take within 10-15 minutes of ingesting anything else orally.

      Coffee or tea should be avoided when they antidote.

      Store in a cool, dark, environment away from exposure to sunlight, microwave or other electro-magnetic frequencies.

      Clinical Effects Based On Level of Potency:

      Use low doses (1X - !0X) for pharmacological support of acute problems and for stimulation of drainage.

      Use medium doses (12X - 10X) for problems lasting longer than 10 days and symptom control.

      Use high doses (60X and up_ for immediate effect on acute problems, constitutional or suppressed conditions.

      #191; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:37:00 GMT
    • Birth&Bunnies, one question I have always wondered about cafeine & remedies - does caffeine needed to be completely & permanently cut out or can it just be avoided in the time frame that the remedy is taken, i.e. that hour?

      Thank you for all your info. It has been very helpful.

      #192; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:38:00 GMT
    • I'm really not sure.:shrug I have just searched some websites to get the posted info :wink. I don't have it all memorized, although I was raised using them and use them/ recommend them now. I would say ask an homeopath or avoid for that hour, see how you feel. If the symptoms become more noticeable you will probably have to wait a few hours for the caffeine to get out of your system and then take another dose.

      Here are a few more tips:

      Those preparing to take homeopathic remedies should also avoid taking antidotes, substances which homeopathic doctors believe cancel the effects of their remedies. These substances include alcohol, coffee, prescription drugs, peppermint (in toothpaste and mouthwash), camphor (in salves and lotions), and very spicy foods. Homeopathic medicine should also be handled with care, and should not be touched with the hands or fingers, which can contaminate it.

      #193; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:39:00 GMT
    • Yes, thanks for the info. So... do you think I should get a lower dose than the 200c? I guess I remembered someone saying they were trying to get that but couldn't find it...

      Thanks again. Will try it out.

      #194; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:40:00 GMT
    • Use high doses (60X and up_ for immediate effect on acute problems, constitutional or suppressed conditions.

      The 200C may be okay for this since it might be considered constitutional or suppressed.

      Check this link to see the profile, that is the whole picture for this remedy. The abbreviated in captions are other remedies that carry that same specific symptom. Ideally you should fit multiple symptoms of that remedy, not just your main one.

      http://www.hpathy.com/materiamedica/allenkeynotes/allen-sepia.asp

      Hopefully you can navigate this site, but if you are unfamiliar with the terms it may be hard.

      #195; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:41:00 GMT
    • Interesting.... when my bladder is REALLY full everything feels normal. Once I empty it sags down again. Anyone else? And any idea why?

      When my bladder is full it feels like I've got a water balloon in my vagina.

      What your describing sounds to me like a pessary feeling. Your bladder is below your uterus. When its full it lifts your uterus up. Make sense?

      My bladder is a grade 4. This might explain my water balloon feeling. Sounds like your bladder is in much better condition.

      #196; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:42:00 GMT
    • Where do I find the liquid form? I've only been able to find the pellets.

      Is that right, 15 drops under the tongue?

      #197; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:43:00 GMT
    • You should be able to have your natural food store order it for you. You may wait a little longer or not, and should save yourself shipping. I just noticed the "drops" you should be able to use the pellets, just the dosing is usually 4 for an adult. Then I would try using the dosing frequency the same, just the drop/pellets would differ. Usually the people working in the herb section know enough to help, you might try asking them about the drops vs. pellets.
      #198; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:44:00 GMT
    • hi! i've been here before, but i changed my username. :)

      i just got the whole woman dvd and did the exercise routine this afternoon. oy! several months of mostly baby and very little conscious stretching or exercise on my part have left me rather inflexible! i think her routine is good, though.

      here's what's concerning me lately: wearing my baby! i love having him in the ergo. but my biggest postural problem (i guess it's all connected, though) is my tailbone points down (years of yoga telling me that's what it should do, and also a freak injury to my tailbone when i was a teenager, which caused me to sit completely slouched for several years). consciously working on this is good, but my low back aches a little. the ergo makes it harder for me to pay attention to what's going on with my posture.

      i also find it hard (impossible, really) to keep a decent posture while nursing (i have a boppy - i wish i had something better, any recommendations?).

      anyway, i wish there were a whole woman dvd aimed at the young immediate postpartum woman! i feel like so much of baby care is really really hard to do ergonomically. :gloomy:

      #199; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:45:00 GMT
    • I found this (http://www.wholewoman.com/drupal/node/567) thread on the whole woman site and I know there are more about baby wearing in posture. There are other threads too if you do a search. :) So much great advice there.

      I didn't use a sling for my baby girl until a few weeks ago fearing that it would make things worse. I finally realized that with 4 kids I need to have my hands free so I gave it a try and haven't felt any negative change from that. In fact things had been feeling much better. Although the last couple of days things have felt saggy but I think that has to do with me starting to exercise again, and not the baby wearing.

      #200; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:46:00 GMT
    • I can't find it!!! I had the info on this cool pillow and it was adjustable, without fire retardant and absolutely no slouching. Google search didn't help...as soon as I figure out the name I will post.
      #201; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:47:00 GMT
    • Hi all... I have not had time to read every single post. I have this same problem and have tried to research it on my own.

      I was terrified of having a 2nd baby and how it would affect my insides. I know I'm still not as strong as I could be and it does worry me a little (it will get worse...) but that's not the point of my post right now.

      WHAT CAUSED IT TO BEGIN WITH?

      I have a 3 year old daughter. She LOVES to sit in the W position. She has from her babyhood. Knees together, feet on the sides. I have photos of myself at age 5 sitting like this. (I do not want this issue affecting my daughter.)

      Could it be that this W-sitting position PUSHES all the organs downwards and makes on more susceptible to this in later years? :scratch

      Vs. cross-legged sitting, where organs are not pushed down?

      What do you all think?

      http://www.pediatricservices.com/parents/pc-22.htm

      #202; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:48:00 GMT
    • Hmmm... I know w-sitting is bad for leg/hip development but does it affect internal organ/muscle strength? I don't know.

      My guess is that prolapse happens for dozens, maybe hundreds of reasons... all sorts of little things interacting. So one woman might find something is very problematic while another might not, even though they both have the same type/level of prolapse. Posture, diet, general health, types of exercise and activities, birth and pregnancy, surgeries, habitual activities, injuries, the whole fabric of life...

      W sitting isn't good for a bunch of reasons, so it's certainly good to discourage it, but it's probably not going to be a "main reason"?

      #203; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:49:00 GMT
    • OMG!

      I just found out that I have a cystocole yesterday, maybe grade 2.. and I am 21 weeks pregnant!

      It feels EXACTLY like someone else at the beginning of this thread described. Like a tampon that I didn't quite insert correctly.

      I went looking for my cervix the other night and instead found a huge bump at my vaginal opnening that was actually my bladder

      I have so much to say... but I need info to avoid a cesarean.

      I have to take ds to school right now, but will definately be back to read this entire thread tonight!

      thanks

      Nina

      #204; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:50:00 GMT
    • I found this (http://www.wholewoman.com/drupal/node/567) thread on the whole woman site and I know there are more about baby wearing in posture. There are other threads too if you do a search. :) So much great advice there.

      thanks. :) i still have trouble navigating that site. the threads are set up strangely.

      I can't find it!!! I had the info on this cool pillow and it was adjustable, without fire retardant and absolutely no slouching. Google search didn't help...as soon as I figure out the name I will post.

      i did some searching myself. found the lechco natural boost pillow? it looked good, but customer reviews were not positive. has anyone tried the my brest friend? mmm, i guess i should move this part of the discussion to breastfeeding. sorry for the slight off-topic. :o i've started sitting on my birth ball to nurse ds with the boppy. that encourages better posture in me, and my knees come up a bit and push the boppy up, so less slouching.

      I have a 3 year old daughter. She LOVES to sit in the W position. She has from her babyhood. Knees together, feet on the sides. I have photos of myself at age 5 sitting like this. (I do not want this issue affecting my daughter.)

      Could it be that this W-sitting position PUSHES all the organs downwards and makes on more susceptible to this in later years? :scratch

      i don't know. what is the position of the lumbar spine in the w-sitting position? the whole woman site recommends sitting on your heels (so, w except that the feet are under the seat instead of to the sides) and i find that does start to improve what i now realize is my utter lack of lumbar curve. i would think the w position would be similar, but maybe the extra torque on the knees and hips (which i guess is what's bad for you) changes things.

      OMG!

      I just found out that I have a cystocole yesterday, maybe grade 2.. and I am 21 weeks pregnant!

      ...

      I have so much to say... but I need info to avoid a cesarean.

      so sorry! i'm sure the whole woman site has info on avoiding a cesarean. for what it's worth, i know someone who had an episiotomy and 4th degree tear with her first child, then "chose" a c-section for the second after her doctor scared her about life-long bowel incontinence, then chose a vbac for the third because she hated the c-section so much. i know it's often assumed that c-sections prevent prolapse, but research says that's not true (though i think there is a lower rate of prolapse with c-sections than vaginal delivery, sadly :lol).

      here's one discussion (http://www.wholewoman.com/drupal/node/890) i found on whole woman about pregnancy with cystocele. (yes, i'm starting to figure out the site :)) i'm sure there are others if you search. you could also post yourself.

      #205; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:51:00 GMT
    • http://www.kidkozy.com/

      Found it found it! I like this one a lot.

      #206; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:52:00 GMT
    • subbing...mild undiagnosed prolapse of some sort with my last three pregnancies. nak right now though. so glad this thread is here!!!
      #207; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:53:00 GMT
    • I just found you mamas!

      I can relate to a lot of what I've read here. I wasn't aware of any problems with my 1st two births (both c/s), but after a 9hr labour with ds3, 40 minutes of baby ejection reflex while I waited it out and no pain, I found myself with at least a prolapsed uterus and maybe bladder too.

      I had to share that the strangest thing ever happened to me and I have wondered about it ever since. Ds3 was 10lbs 3oz, born December 2005, then in October 2006, when my cervix was still just barely inside, we moved way up north, a 33 hour drive. The second week we were here, my cervix had moved waaaay up to almost its original position! I hadn't done anything different, new, and if anything, I was exerting too much pressure on my pelvic floor with all the moving arrangements, and had made things worse just before we left.

      I'm pg now, and I don't know what to expect pp, but I am hopeful that I'll heal again. At the beginning of 2nd trimester, I did feel a little saggy, but nothing really uncomfortable.

      My theory is that the drastic increase in oxygen and reduction in air and water pollution were major contributing factors to my sudden and unexpected recovery. I don't know for sure, but after ten months of things either staying the same or becoming worse, this development was nothing short of miraculous or a direct result of the intense environmental change. We live in a town of 200 in the middle of the woods, isolated and remote. This area is considered 'virgin' since its never been logged or sprayed with anything, although there are some small mines up here, but that's it and compared with the city... umm, well there's no comparison.

      Anyway- I wonder if anyone has tried anything related to oxygen therapy, toxin removal, location changes, anything like that? I haven't heard of this happening to anyone else before, but admittedly, I don't bring up POP very often :o .

      Thank you for being here!!!

      #208; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:54:00 GMT
    • Hi everyone. I am so glad to see so many people have found this thread. POP seems to be fairly common, but something no one talks about. I certainly had no idea until that fateful GYN appointment.

      I had a really bad day yesterday. My prolapses (uterine & bladder) felt worse than ever. I had been on my feet a lot, doing a lot of house work, but really nothing too unusual. It felt like when I was in labor and the baby's head was pushing on my vagina & rectum. I had to go lie down w/an ice pack & take some ibuprofin. Well, it turns out I was rather constipated and that was what was causing the pressure. Very strange. I guess I will have to keep an eye on that and try to eat better.

      Sometimes, like yesterday, I get really frustrated dealing w/this an feel like surgery may be the way to go. But I really do not want to have surgery, for many reasons, but I am particularly terrified of being put under. I feel like I still have a few things to try that may help, so I need to focus on that & stay positive. But, as you all know I'm sure, that can be hard to do.

      #209; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:55:00 GMT
    • hugs max

      I take metamucil (or the store brand) every night before bed and if I don't "go" in a 24 hr period I take a dose of milk of magnesia before bed too. I started this at my OB's request after the tear repair since constipation would be pretty bad during the healing phase, but I've kept it up since staying really really regular seems to help with my symptoms...I've noticed that even a little extra "bulk" in the area leads to a significant "ugh" feeling till it resolves.

      I do find it funny that metamucil is actively marketing to 20-30 something women (their tv ads equate metamucil/fiber supplements with things like exercise, yoga, and skin care products "do something beautiful for your insides"). Who knew laxatives were sexy? :lol

      #210; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:56:00 GMT
    • I had to share that the strangest thing ever happened to me and I have wondered about it ever since. Ds3 was 10lbs 3oz, born December 2005, then in October 2006, when my cervix was still just barely inside, we moved way up north, a 33 hour drive. The second week we were here, my cervix had moved waaaay up to almost its original position! I hadn't done anything different, new, and if anything, I was exerting too much pressure on my pelvic floor with all the moving arrangements, and had made things worse just before we left.

      My theory is that the drastic increase in oxygen and reduction in air and water pollution were major contributing factors to my sudden and unexpected recovery. I don't know for sure, but after ten months of things either staying the same or becoming worse, this development was nothing short of miraculous or a direct result of the intense environmental change. We live in a town of 200 in the middle of the woods, isolated and remote. This area is considered 'virgin' since its never been logged or sprayed with anything, although there are some small mines up here, but that's it and compared with the city... umm, well there's no comparison.

      Anyway- I wonder if anyone has tried anything related to oxygen therapy, toxin removal, location changes, anything like that? I haven't heard of this happening to anyone else before, but admittedly, I don't bring up POP very often :o .

      Thank you for being here!!!

      That is a really interesting theory! I've been nagging to move up north, either CO where I grew up or Salem OR so in case I do end up pregnant again (not likely) I can try hiring pamamidwife from MDC to attend the Birth, otherwise it'll be a UC for us.

      Congratulations on your upcoming arrival! Good Luck, can't wait to hear how it went!

      Hi everyone. I am so glad to see so many people have found this thread. POP seems to be fairly common, but something no one talks about. I certainly had no idea until that fateful GYN appointment.

      I had a really bad day yesterday. My prolapses (uterine & bladder) felt worse than ever. I had been on my feet a lot, doing a lot of house work, but really nothing too unusual. It felt like when I was in labor and the baby's head was pushing on my vagina & rectum. I had to go lie down w/an ice pack & take some ibuprofin. Well, it turns out I was rather constipated and that was what was causing the pressure. Very strange. I guess I will have to keep an eye on that and try to eat better.

      Sometimes, like yesterday, I get really frustrated dealing w/this an feel like surgery may be the way to go. But I really do not want to have surgery, for many reasons, but I am particularly terrified of being put under. I feel like I still have a few things to try that may help, so I need to focus on that & stay positive. But, as you all know I'm sure, that can be hard to do.

      I missed you ~max~. :hug sorry your feeling bad. I do the liquid fiber found at Whole Foods or the Vitamin Shoppe. It really works for me. I haven't used it in awhile because I haven't needed it. I do make sure I'm faithful to go when the urge calls for it right then. If I ever ignore the call I'm sure to suffer and stay stopped up for a long time.

      #211; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:57:00 GMT
    • Thank you for the replies & support wombatclay & fruitful womb. So I guess this isn't my imagination! I've missed you all too. I had some recent stress w/my baby, and I was mainly focusing on that, but all is well now. It's good to be back. :)
      #212; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:58:00 GMT
    • I always feel things more when I'm constipated. Unfortunately my rectocele is causing problems with regularity which makes me feel the cystocele all the more. I too am trying to eat better. I was feeling really good, I was back to doing most of the housework and started exercising. Now eveything is saggy and the house is a mess and I'm so frustrated. I'm feeling the same way about surgery today.
      #213; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:59:00 GMT
    • I always feel things more when I'm constipated. Unfortunately my rectocele is causing problems with regularity which makes me feel the cystocele all the more. I too am trying to eat better. I was feeling really good, I was back to doing most of the housework and started exercising. Now eveything is saggy and the house is a mess and I'm so frustrated. I'm feeling the same way about surgery today.

      I hear you on the housework - vacuming & washing the floors particularly bother me. i think it is that leaning over, push & pull motion. If only we could afford a cleaning person, now I would have the perfect excuse!

      Has anyone tried a support garment like Spanx or Hanes Body Shaper? Now that summer is over I'd like to try one. Any recommendations?

      I am also going to ask my GYN about a pessary next time I see her. I have been using a sea sponge as one & it really seems to help, but I have trouble getting it out. I know I can sew a string onto it, but I don't really like the idea of the string hanging out. That always bothered me w/tampons.

      I have been trying the sepia too, but not noticing much results. I think it is bc of my coffee intake. :bag There is just no way I can survive without it!!!

      #214; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:00:00 GMT
    • Hi everyone,

      I disappeared for a while but have been scrolling through.

      I have been feeling so much better! I am about 19 or so weeks PP and have done some serious healing.

      My cystocele was Grade 3 at 4 wks PP and is now a Grade 2.

      I am able to do so many things now and walk greater distances, dance with my 3 yr old etc.. I feel much better at work than i did 4 wks ago.

      I hope this gives you some encouragement.

      Max, I am sorry to hear you have had some hard days. I have been there. I swear I thought I would need surgery one month ago and something has suddenly shifted. I wish this shift for all of you.

      I still get a bit saggy at the end of the day, but in general I don't feel the huge bulge i was feeling. Sneezing still is challenging. I don't always kegel in time for the sneeze!

      Be Well

      #215; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:01:00 GMT
    • ok, so what do you do when you have a cough? I am coughing pretty bad, and I feel things getting low in there.

      I have no clue what my prolapse is, i assumed it was uterine, because I had just had a baby. I am just over 7 weeks pp, and had this with the last three births, bad enough the first time where I was wiping and felt something at the opening of my vagina. I assumed then too that it was my uterus, I have no clue how to tell which organ it is. I also have severe pelvic/hip/sciatic pain, so bad that I can not walk for more than a block or two without being in very bad pain for days afterward.

      #216; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:02:00 GMT
    • Here is the recipe my PT gave me for keeping your bowels regular. She was fanatical about not straining on the toilet.

      1/2 cup unprocessed bran

      1/4 cup applesauce

      1/4 cup prune juice

      Combine and keep in the fridge. Take 2 tablespoons every day with 8 oz of water. Increase up to 4 tablespoons as needed - but increase water consumption accordingly.

      #217; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:03:00 GMT
    • Sneezing still is challenging. I don't always kegel in time for the sneeze!

      My allergies are going nuts lately so I've been sneezing a lot. I read, I think on the whole woman site, to bend at the waist when you sneeze and it really has helped. I don't feel like I'm going to eject all my organs every time I have to sneeze.

      #218; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:04:00 GMT
    • If I ever have to sneeze, cough, etc., I always try to keep my butt "up". Make the lower back have a curve in it and then sneeze. I also do this when I have to lift anything heavy. That way your organs aren't taking on all of the weight of everything going on.
      #219; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:05:00 GMT
    • If I ever have to sneeze, cough, etc., I always try to keep my butt "up". Make the lower back have a curve in it and then sneeze. I also do this when I have to lift anything heavy. That way your organs aren't taking on all of the weight of everything going on.

      Thank you! That actually feels much better when I cough. It doesn't feel like stuff is coming out.

      #220; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:06:00 GMT
    • Here is the recipe my PT gave me for keeping your bowels regular. She was fanatical about not straining on the toilet.

      1/2 cup unprocessed bran

      1/4 cup applesauce

      1/4 cup prune juice

      Combine and keep in the fridge. Take 2 tablespoons every day with 8 oz of water. Increase up to 4 tablespoons as needed - but increase water consumption accordingly.

      Sounds like you have a great PT. I had to fire mine because she advocated circumcision. I just couldn't see her being able to heal when she supports harming a newborn through an arbitrary reductive cosmetic surgery known as RIC! I hope I'm not out of line for the way I feel. I told her how I felt in a nice way. She seemed offended. Then we sort of repelled. oh well. I hope she felt informed after saying what I said because she clearly had no idea. I'm praying for her.

      I'll find a different PT in a few months. I'm 6 m pp now. I've given myself 1 year and by then I expect to improve!

      For now, it looks like I'm going to bite the bullet and buy Christine's Whole Woman series. The Balms too. Total is $173.00 Thats less than all the appointments I had with the PT.

      Today, I need a cyber shoulder to cry on.:gloomy: My bladder feels like its hanging out of my body.:( I was dx a stage 4. of 4! I thought I was getting better and all of a sudden it feels worse than I've ever felt! :gloomy:

      Please pray for me, send healing vibes my way... I want to get better.

      ~FW

      #221; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:07:00 GMT
    • Fruitful Womb, :hug I think you will find the Whole Woman package helpful, reassuring, and hopeful. I recently bought the balms & like them a lot.

      Your in my thoughts mama.

      #222; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:08:00 GMT
    • Sigh... I caught a cold from dd1 and have now spent 2 weeks coughing and blowing my nose. I do my best to "hold in/up" and bend a bit to take the pressure off the pelvic area but...

      I really feel like I've set myself back months of healing. I feel very droopy, achy, bulging.

      Bleh.

      #224; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:10:00 GMT
    • Wombatclay, that is discouraging. hugs... I haven't had a bad cold since the one I think caused this whole problem, but I'm not looking forward to it when I do get one... Do you ever get 'completely' healed? Enough so that you don't get set back by a cold, or having to lift heavy stuff? Will I ever be able to go backpacking again?...
      #225; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:11:00 GMT
    • Don't get too discouraged. For some reason, the body seems to bounce back from colds, flu, diarrhea, etc. Doesn't bounce back to before baby, but back to regular prolapse vs. yuck prolapse. The worst part is the fear.

      Feel better soon.

      #226; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:12:00 GMT
    • Sigh... I caught a cold from dd1 and have now spent 2 weeks coughing and blowing my nose. I do my best to "hold in/up" and bend a bit to take the pressure off the pelvic area but...

      I really feel like I've set myself back months of healing. I feel very droopy, achy, bulging.

      Bleh.

      I hope you are feeling better soon Wombatclay. Every time I cough I worry, as that is what started this whole thing for me. Right now my kids have deep, chesty coughs so it is most likely only a matter of time here.

      Do you have the Whole Woman video? Doing the exercise program might help pulling things back into place.

      Take good care mama.

      #227; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:13:00 GMT
    • Hi!

      If anyone still catches up with this thread...

      I think I have a prolapse of some kind. Argh. I am 6 weeks postpartum and things feel severely "off." It was my second birth so I had an idea of what to expect but things just are not looking good.

      It looks like it is either my bladder or my uterus because the "bottom" part looks fine. How can I tell the difference? What exactly would prolapse look like? (tmi warning: nothing is coming out but occasionally it is almost like my vagina is non-existent when I stand up) Is it also possible that the inside of my vagina tore?

      I am freaking out and have an appointment with my midwife. I have been looking at the total woman site frequently but still am not sure what is the best way to deal with this. How long do I have postpartum for my body to be moving things back into position?

      #228; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:14:00 GMT
    • Congrats on your new baby! I was where you are 3 1/2 months ago. My advice is to rest as MUCH as possible. Take that baby to bed and stay there as long as possible. Don't vacuum or lift anything heavy. Really give your body a chance to recover. I know how hard that is with older kids but it really is important not to do too much too soon. At 6 weeks postpartum I cried every day because of how awful my bladder felt. Now at 3 1/2 months postpartum I only really feel my prolapse when I lift too much, jog or let myself get constipated. Things aren't the same as prebaby but I can deal with it day to day as long as I take care of myself. I hope you're feeling better soon!
      #229; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:15:00 GMT
    • hugs mama... but congrats on the new babe! :)

      Your body should start moving things around as soon as the babe is born...6-8 weeks is generally thought of as "when the uterus should be more or less back in place". Of course, for some mamas it takes longer.

      I hava a mild/moderate bladder prolapse...for me it feels like a poorly inserted tampon (so something pushing "in" the vaginal area) and a bulging right at the vaginal opening. Kegels make the bulge vanish for a time, then it comes back. I also have difficulty voiding completely...I'll go, then lean forward and go again. :lol

      Seeing your midwife is good, but if you still feel off ansd she doesn't see anything consider asking for a ref to a specialist or physical therapist familiar with pelvic health. A mild prolapse may be difficult to see (for example, it's best to examine the organ placement while you are standing but most primary care givers are going to do a VE with you laying down).

      And yes...you can tear "up" as well as "in" and "across". I know a few mamas who have actually torn theuir cervix, and a few who have had extensive internal tearing leading to fistulas. It's not something they really talk about in baby classes (or even here at mdc so much) but it happens. Having your mw check for that could be good too.

      hugs again...I hope everything turns out to be fine! You may just need a little longer to heal! :)

      #230; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:16:00 GMT
    • I just found this thread and I think I might have this. Something has felt off for a few weeks now.

      I was having severe breast pain and took some Tylenol 3 for 2 days, not realizing that one of the side effects is constipation. I have felt off since then. This was around 9 weeks post partum, and I'm at 13 weeks now. I think I was healing fine before then-- is it possible I knocked something out of whack with the constipation at 9 weeks?

      I just checked myself with a mirror and it does look like something is crowning, yikes. It is pink and soft and I was able to push it back a little.

      Anyway, what next? Put a call in to the midwife and see what she says?

      Thanks.

      #231; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:17:00 GMT
    • heyla cornpicker! You're still pretty "newly" post-partum so some of this could just be the totally normal reorganization of the area that happens following birth. Many prolapses get better on their own over the course of the first year postpartum...

      The constipation probably didn't help though! Does kegel'ing help at all? Or does it seem worse late in the day? Calling your midwife is a great idea, and if you're not happy with the response ask to see a physical therapist who is trained in pelvic floor health...some primary care givers just aren't familiar enough with prolapse to assist you if that's the case.

      And to everyone... my cold is gone and my innards have returned more or less to where they were before the cold. Which seems wonderful in comparison to where they were! :lol Nothing like a little perspective to make this seem not so bad, right?

      I think the fact that I'm home full time now is also helping. I'm able to stay more hydrated, I'm eating better, I don't have to sit in an uncomfy chair for hours on end, and the stress level is less as well. So I think that is giving my body a little more space to heal.

      I don't have the whole woman exercises yet...I'm hoping I might get them as a holiday gift but right now things are too tight for "extra" purchases. I've been doing the "Mummy Tummy" exercises though and belly dancing a little. I know yoga has a bad rap in prolapse circles, but I'm thinking I might join dd more in her "toddler yoga" (she loves it and we used to do it a lot before dd2 arrived and the thought of a squat made me cry). I don't think it could hurt and might help things move in new ways.

      #232; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:18:00 GMT
    • Thanks for the reply, Wombatclay. I'm going to step up the kegels, I think they help. I'm not sure about later in the day but I'll start paying attention. I'll give my MW the heads up, too.

      Thanks and best wishes!

      #233; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:19:00 GMT
    • I never noticed this thread before! I'm 3 months postpartum and have mild uterine prolapse and a mild-to-moderate cystocele. Over the past 2 months my cervix has been gradually rising, which is encouraging. My cystocele doesn't really seem to be improving much, though.

      My biggest concern about my prolapse is how it will affect future pregnancies and births. We would like to have two more children eventually, and I worry that my pelvic organs won't handle that well. I also worry about how this will affect me as I age. I'm only 22 and in good shape - what will my body be like in 20, 30, 40 years? This is the last thing I expected to be dealing with in my twenties.:gloomy:

      #234; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:20:00 GMT
    • Thanks for the replies. It is prolapse for sure...argh. :gloomy: I am still in the "I don't want to deal with this phase." I am sure this will be followed by an intense "I must fix this phase." :lol

      This thread really helps me feel more normal. It is nice to hear from people who are my age dealing with this. I am having a hard time figuring out how I am going to ever feel attractive after this. Why doesn't anyone talk about this in classes/books?

      #235; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:21:00 GMT
    • This thread really helps me feel more normal. It is nice to hear from people who are my age dealing with this. I am having a hard time figuring out how I am going to ever feel attractive after this. Why doesn't anyone talk about this in classes/books?

      When I first discovered my prolapse, I was absolutely devastated. I felt like I was "damaged goods" all of a sudden. I have no idea why people don't talk about this. Even in "What To Expect When You're Expecting", where they talk about pretty much every complication possible, prolapse isn't mentioned even once. It kind of makes you feel like you've got this strange, rare condition that no one ever talks about.

      #236; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:22:00 GMT
    • Wow I just saw this thread!

      Maybe some of you can help me. I just posted this: http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?p=9746261#post9746261

      #237; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:23:00 GMT
    • Heyla MotherWillow!

      I read your other post (I had 100+ stitches too due to a 4th degree tear so I hear you on that!)... go to the Whole Woman website (http://www.wholewoman.com/) and check out the information and forums. There are a lot of women dealing with this sort of thing and there are a number of options to try before moving to surgery. As the Whole Woman site points out, you can ALWAYS try surgery if the less invasive treatments don't work. But since the surgery can cause a number of problems and may not be effective in the long term (leading to more surgery to correct the situation) it doesn't make sense to start with surgery till you know it's the best choice for you. The site also points out that (sort of like the world of OB/GYNs) surgeons know surgery and they jump right to that as the "cure" for prolapse. But it's not the best choice for every woman, or even most women.

      Anyway, there are a lot of ideas in this thread too... staying regular, kegels, ab exercises to try or to avoid, working with physical therapists, homeopathic and herbal treatments, etc.

      Lula- I remember feeling so horribly broken after my c/s, and then even though I had my vbac it came with that 4th degree tear and a prolapse...so I still feel like there is something deeply "wrong" with me as a woman. Like, "why me?" what did I do or not do to cause this? I know time will bring emotional healing as well as physical healing, but I'm having a hard time too...

      #238; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:24:00 GMT